7.3 idi engine shudder/miss

[cardana24]

Hey guys, I finally have my truck on the road after being down for close to 6 years. I am trying to figure out a problem I’m having with an engine shudder. My tail pipe shakes a little while at idle. When accelerating its noticeable, like a light shaking. It most noticeable around 2.5k when the shaking seems more noticeable. My truck is a 1994 with a 92 na engine I installed and bolted on my factory turbo kit. My injection pump is timed at 8.5 degrees. When I was adjusting my timing it did bump it to about 10 degrees and the truck ran worse with a more noticeable shudder. Today I cracked each injector line and it changed the way the engine ran. The injectors in my engine don’t have many miles on them but they are not new. They are bb’s that I got from Russ years ago. They have probably 5k miles on them but they are probably 8 years old and sat installed in my old engine not running for 6 years. Any advice? Here is a video I took today of my truck running.

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[lotzagoodstuff]

Compression test to confirm all the cylinders are healthy.

 

[cardana24]

Compression test to confirm all the cylinders are healthy.

I don’t currently have a tester that will work on our engines. I only have the standard gas tester. The current engine has about 225k miles and I just re assembled it over the past few months. Nothing looked obviously screwed up, I don’t see any evidence of cross contamination of oil and coolant and the truck does not seem to smoke excessively. Is there a cheaper compression tester that seems to work alright for us?

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

You know, after watching the video, it sounds pretty healthy. How many miles have you put on it and how hard have you leaned on it? Might be worth a filter full of atf and some hard pulls up a decent grade to see idle quality changes. I’d compression test it too, but atf and a little workout is pretty easy too.

 

[cardana24]

You know, after watching the video, it sounds pretty healthy. How many miles have you put on it and how hard have you leaned on it? Might be worth a filter full of atf and some hard pulls up a decent grade to see idle quality changes. I’d compression test it too, but atf and a little workout is pretty easy too.

Yeah it really does not sound bad in my opinion either. Like I said earlier the bb injectors don’t have many miles on them but the are about 8 years old. Not sure if sorting negatively affects them. The injection pump is the original pump from my factory turbo truck with about 182k, it did not have this issue before but that was almost 6 years ago. Would it make any sense that I would need to back the timing off from 8.5 degrees?

To answer your question I have not run it hard at all. I have driven it about 35 miles since I put it back on the road. The atf trick worked for me years ago but I don’t remember the problem I was having but it was not breaking up under heavy acceleration like it is now.

Another thing to mention is that I don’t know what boost it’s making. I got the pipe plug out of the intake hat today and I hope to plumb the boost gauge tomorrow. If I’m not making proper boost would that cause breaking up?

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Is there a cheaper compression tester that seems to work alright for us?

A lot of people seem to like the Harbor Freight tester.

Would it make any sense that I would need to back the timing off from 8.5 degrees?

Yes. I've seen several people say that their turbo engines (as opposed to N/A) run better with less timing advance.

If I’m not making proper boost would that cause breaking up?

I don't thin it would. I would think that all that would happen is that you'd be overfueled and have a lot of black smoke out of the exhaust plus higher EGTs if run very far or fast. You could sure try the ATF trick. It won't hurt anything, but with 182,000 miles on your IP, I would lean toward that being an issue. If you decide to buy another IP, it sure wouldn't hurt to, at the very least, have your injectors pop tested.

 

[IDIoit]

pull the intake hat off and listen. see if it gets more noticeable

 

[cardana24]

pull the intake hat off and listen. see if it gets more noticeable

Okay, what would that indicate if it gets worse or better with the intake hat removed?

 

[IDIoit]

youd hear the sweet sounds of chuff which is a valve not seating.
could be a rocker, could be a valve spring, etc.

 

[CBRF3]

youd hear the sweet sounds of chuff which is a valve not seating.
could be a rocker, could be a valve spring, etc.

or a lifter issue alot of people do not know this but the new rotella and many other oils also don't protect our engines like it should the CJ4 standard removed alot of testing from requirement this is why ford actually advises not to use rotella anymore for any of theyre powerstroke lineup. The CJ4 standard removed alot of the testing for upper valve train wear and lifter wear and well our motors are very sensitive in the lifter area if we have issues with a oil the lifter plugs and will pump up hard and float a valve and cut oil feed to that rocker ask me how I know 3 IDI motors all having lifter issues suddenly after the CJ4 standard came into use. I now use dello 400 / sinopec TULUX T700 as they kept doing the upper valve train testing and such rotella only did the bare minimum required testing as did many others and well it has started really rearing its head on our motors in past few years.

Hey guys, I finally have my truck on the road after being down for close to 6 years. I am trying to figure out a problem I’m having with an engine shudder. My tail pipe shakes a little while at idle. When accelerating its noticeable, like a light shaking. It most noticeable around 2.5k when the shaking seems more noticeable. My truck is a 1994 with a 92 na engine I installed and bolted on my factory turbo kit. My injection pump is timed at 8.5 degrees. When I was adjusting my timing it did bump it to about 10 degrees and the truck ran worse with a more noticeable shudder. Today I cracked each injector line and it changed the way the engine ran. The injectors in my engine don’t have many miles on them but they are not new. They are bb’s that I got from Russ years ago. They have probably 5k miles on them but they are probably 8 years old and sat installed in my old engine not running for 6 years. Any advice? Here is a video I took today of my truck running.

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The point is chuff as was said before is a valve not seating properly and I also noticed you have a ton of blowby also this could be a issue with stuck 2nd compression rings on a few cylinders this can be hard to fix but only good advice I can give for sticking rings is hook it up to a descent loaded trailer and go towing for few days atleast a few hours a day and push it a bit allow the engine to work. This heats up the pistons and also allows the motor to labor and often breaks the stuck rings loose our engines don't like being unloaded for to long or they try to glaze the cylinders our engines are meant to be worked and they dont like daily driving without working and no hot roding it wont work you need to make the motor grunt and work for a sustained amount of time not just spurts otherwise it wont burn the glazing off and wont unstick the rings.

 

[cardana24]

or a lifter issue alot of people do not know this but the new rotella and many other oils also don't protect our engines like it should the CJ4 standard removed alot of testing from requirement this is why ford actually advises not to use rotella anymore for any of theyre powerstroke lineup. The CJ4 standard removed alot of the testing for upper valve train wear and lifter wear and well our motors are very sensitive in the lifter area if we have issues with a oil the lifter plugs and will pump up hard and float a valve and cut oil feed to that rocker ask me how I know 3 IDI motors all having lifter issues suddenly after the CJ4 standard came into use. I now use dello 400 / sinopec TULUX T700 as they kept doing the upper valve train testing and such rotella only did the bare minimum required testing as did many others and well it has started really rearing its head on our motors in past few years.




The point is chuff as was said before is a valve not seating properly and I also noticed you have a ton of blowby also this could be a issue with stuck 2nd compression rings on a few cylinders this can be hard to fix but only good advice I can give for sticking rings is hook it up to a descent loaded trailer and go towing for few days atleast a few hours a day and push it a bit allow the engine to work. This heats up the pistons and also allows the motor to labor and often breaks the stuck rings loose our engines don't like being unloaded for to long or they try to glaze the cylinders our engines are meant to be worked and they dont like daily driving without working and no hot roding it wont work you need to make the motor grunt and work for a sustained amount of time not just spurts otherwise it wont burn the glazing off and wont unstick the rings.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. When I did a check for blow by the oil cap did not blow off while I was unscrewing it, I realize this is not a definitive test.

I really don’t know much about this engine. I bought the truck that it was in for it’s zf5 parts. Out of necessity I ended up needing to use the engine. It was running at the time of purchase. Then it sat on the engine stand for about two years with the heads taken off until I had a chance to work on it. I will say that it starts a lot easier than my previous engine ever did. It does not even need to crank for a second in order to start after the glow plugs cycle. If I am ha omg a problem due to the engine sitting or being dirty do you think auto rc would help? When I search I see a lot of talk about that product years ago.

I’m currently waiting for an turbo oil feed line to come in that I ordered from Russ to fix the leaking connection on the back of the engine. Once that is sealed up I’ll do some more testing.

 

[John Scott]

So what does a filter full of trans fluid do for the fuel system??... and what oil do u guys recommend if not rottella.... and what weight

 

[CBRF3]

So what does a filter full of trans fluid do for the fuel system??... and what oil do u guys recommend if not rottella.... and what weight

I prefer delo 400 the point is rotella was a good oil but now its not so great and for towing and warmer climates run 15w-40 for cold climates 5w-40 and make sure is diesel oil because regular motor oil don't have the detergeant package to deal with the soot and acidity our engines produce via fuel contamination / blow by diesel engines need special oils to combat the cumbustion process our engines produce alot more acidity and soot than gasoline oil can handle.

Now as for the fuel filter full of trans fluid thats a old remedy to clean a injection pump of varnish and such from setting for years when our pumps set and diesel turns gummy it causes stuff to stick internally me myself I run universal trans fluid and sea foam 50/50 in this case to clean and free up a gummy injection pump. I also sometimes because I run alternative fuels have to do this every so often I prefer to use veggie oil and diesel purge mix in a stand alone loop and sometimes the universal trans fluid / sea foam same way.

 

[bilbo]

I prefer delo 400 the point is rotella was a good oil but now its not so great and for towing and warmer climates run 15w-40 for cold climates 5w-40 and make sure is diesel oil

Most 5w-40 I’ve seen is synthetic. Are there any concerns switching to synthetic for an engine that has been running conventional for 20 plus years and several hundred thousand miles? I remember years ago people saying it would loosen sludge and cause leaks. I’d like to use 5w-40 but my engine is relatively leak free and I’d like to keep it that way. At the same time, mine has 15w-40 conventional and seemed to work fine so far this winter, except for -20 when the block heater wasn’t working.

 

[CBRF3]

Most 5w-40 I’ve seen is synthetic. Are there any concerns switching to synthetic for an engine that has been running conventional for 20 plus years and several hundred thousand miles? I remember years ago people saying it would loosen sludge and cause leaks. I’d like to use 5w-40 but my engine is relatively leak free and I’d like to keep it that way. At the same time, mine has 15w-40 conventional and seemed to work fine so far this winter, except for -20 when the block heater wasn’t working.

anymore no as synthetic oils are designed to meet same standards but with longer life span before oxidation and such and most oils they call synthetic here in USA is actuall group II / III hydrocracked crude oil aka dino oil not a real synthetic oil aka group IV / V https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-02/synthetic-word-relates-motor-oil companies cheat and say II/III are full synthetic when they are not they only require a small amount of synthetic additive to be called full synthetic here.

Group III — Wax isomerized or hydrocracked crude oil refining process. Group III base stocks are considered synthetic because their molecular structures are altered through an intended chemical reaction. Very low wax and aromatic content. Used in the majority of synthetic motor oils.

which is not really synthetic oil its a cheat oil manufacturers use to lie to you about it being synthetic

This is why alot of GDI engine owners are having major issues with theyre engines due to the lie about being synthetic when it is not a GDI engine is super finicky about oil and only a true synthetic will have a good enough NOACK volatility number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noack_volatility_test

Our engines also are in this boat as we need a low NOACK volatility to keep our oil in the motor when towing we have piston squirters shooting oil on bottom of a piston at over 500f this will cause fast evaporation of oil which rotella is horrible about now also when the oil flashes off in this way it causes the oil to thicken and get sticky this can land our engines with sticking rings and sticking CDR valves which will literally blow every seal / gasket out of our motors making them puke oil constantly and also major sludge formation issues.

I have been testing other oils and have come across one i really like but suddenly it got hard to get http://english.sinolube.com/content/details15_570.html
https://www.walmart.com/ip/15W40-Fu...gine-Oil-5-Gallon-Pail-18L-4-75-GAL/848072546 this oil has been doing awesome for me for past year+ we are talking much better than any other oil for the price and my oil analysis reports confirm this oil is doing very well even with 10,000 mile oil changer interval with motorcraft FL1995 oil filter.