Project Thread: 89 F250 Franken Truck

CalIDI

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Hey IDI enthusiasts,

I decided to begin a project thread for my truck.

Its gonna be a slow project but I'm hoping I can get it done.

Long first post, so here goes:

Lets start with the DATA:
1989 F250 C6 Automatic 2wd 3.55 diff Extended Cab Long Bed in need of lots of TLC

The frame was swapped to a f-super/f550 at some point in its life. It was then abused way beyond legal GVWR and a new transmission was installed (said the PO). Not long after (between 500 and 1500) miles the engine failed. (due to excessive ether)

I put batteries in it and tinkered for a bit. Wouldn't start, and the flywheel teeth are worn from long cranks by the previous owner. Ether was used commonly, even in the summer "for quicker starts". (& quicker death!) The motor held on for 7 years of this treatment.

When I got it it almost started and then the flywheel teeth chipped because the motor locked up. Couldn't even turn it over with the gp's removed by hand or with the starter. The starter now grinds and doesn't grab enough teeth to turn the motor over.

Gonna have to pull the motor.
Ive got a cherry picker capable of 4000 and a buddy with a 2ton crane mounted in the bed of a 94 PSD dually. If the crane has enough reach I'll see if he'll help me because the truck is parked on gravel.

The PLAN:
Ive got two parts IDIs both run, a 6.9 & a 7.3. Im thinking I'll swap in the 7.3l and drive it a bit to check out the rest of the truck (PO mentioned brake issues) while I build the 6.9l. Upgrade plans to follow in a later post.

I will likely do a WMO or WVO conversion while running the 7.3l.


What do y'all think? Comments concerns, Ideas (good and bad ;)), etc are welcome.
You are welcome to bring up anything that comes to mind, but I do request that is at least related to IDIs or trucks in general.

I will make a post later detailing the upgrades and plans I have for this truck. I am the type of person who wants great reliability, some power, and lots of old truck charm. I like the 8th gen interior, 7th gen headlights & tailgate... I want to do a built 6.9l zf5 swap, a 7th gen clip, hydro boost, etc... Gonna be a franken truck when I'm done, but today what IDI isn't?

First QUESTIONS:
I want to make sure that the 7.3l is mechanically in good shape because I want it to be reliable until I swap it. Without a stand is there any thing I can do to quickly check it? Ive got Blackstone labs kits, would an oil sample tell me enough? How about pulling the valve covers? I can do all that, but I can't flip it over yet.


Thanks & Happy Tinkering
-CalIDI
 

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Nero

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Quigley swap it :joker:
But it sounds like you have the right plans so far! Interested in seeing this project take off.
 

IDIBRONCO

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I decided to begin a project thread for my truck.

Its gonna be a slow project but I'm hoping I can get it done.
There's nothing at all wrong with that. Mine has been going on for over two years and the engine hasn't even been pulled out yet.
. Ether was used commonly, even in the summer "for quicker starts". (& quicker death!)
Some people...cookoo. The worst that I've seen was back in about 2003. I was helping out a contractor on the weekends ( I went to work for him full time in 15-16). We were in a newer subdivision. We got there just about quitting time. There was another crew that was leaving. Their truck was a Bull Nose crew cab with a IDI in it. I watched as the guy who was going to start it opened the hood, pulled the lid off of the air cleaner, and dumped what I assume was gasoline into the intake from a small gas can. It started, but I was waiting for a rod to come flying out of the block going by the way the engine sounded. They drove off in it. I didn't see the truck again so I have no idea how much longer the engine lasted.
Gonna have to pull the motor.
Ive got a cherry picker capable of 4000 and a buddy with a 2ton crane mounted in the bed of a 94 PSD dually. If the crane has enough reach I'll see if he'll help me because the truck is parked on gravel.
If you can't use the crane, you can lift the engine up with the cherry picker, use something to hold up the transmission, and push the truck backward as you lift the engine up higher. You will have to lift, push, lift, push, lift, push until you get the engine out.
First QUESTIONS:
I want to make sure that the 7.3l is mechanically in good shape because I want it to be reliable until I swap it. Without a stand is there any thing I can do to quickly check it? Ive got Blackstone labs kits, would an oil sample tell me enough? How about pulling the valve covers? I can do all that, but I can't flip it over yet.
My opinion here is that if you're not planning to run the 7.3 for a long period of time (many years) is to pull the valve covers like you said. If everything looks good under there and there's no sooty looking deposits around the exhaust valves and springs that's good enough. Then pull the oil pan and check the bearings. You don't have to check all of the bearings, just a couple of mains and a couple of rods. If those look good, I'd put it back together (without using a gasket on the oil pan) and then drop the engine in the truck and run it.
Honestly, making a build thread is the best way to do this type of thing. It's MUCH better than making a new thread for each new issues you may run into.
 

chillman88

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Ive got two parts IDIs both run, a 6.9 & a 7.3. Im thinking I'll swap in the 7.3l and drive it a bit to check out the rest of the truck (PO mentioned brake issues) while I build the 6.9l

Are you going for stock ish power or are you planning to build your spare engine for big boost? The 7.3 has larger head bolts and if you're planning on building for power you'll want to build a 7.3 not a 6.9. There's not enough meat in the 6.9 block to run the larger head studs.

Not an issue if you're not planning on going big but I wanted to mention it now before it's too late.
 

CalIDI

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Are you going for stock ish power or are you planning to build your spare engine for big boost? The 7.3 has larger head bolts and if you're planning on building for power you'll want to build a 7.3 not a 6.9. There's not enough meat in the 6.9 block to run the larger head studs.

Not an issue if you're not planning on going big but I wanted to mention it now before it's too late.
I was hoping to get 250 or 300, if I can out of the 6.9l. Wanna retain utmost reliability though. I hadn't heard about the 6.9l being weaker in the heads but I wanted to build it because the cylinders are better. I was gonna fab up a kit or buy one from CDD/R&D. Probably a Stage 1 and add a frozen boost cooler...

I knew they took different studs. Would I run into problems doing <15psi. I don't need tons of boost (I think) but I'd like it to make boost quick...

I heard the 7.3l had a "better" valve guide design that used less oil at the cost of valves receiving less lubrication. I think in that case I'd take the 6.9 for longer life. LMK if I'm wrong.

Oh man are those captains seats in that truck???!
Yes they are. They might be comfortable, but the PO was not thinking when he put them in. Driver's side was power, but not hooked up. Passenger side only has three bolts in. Did I mention that the driver's side only has two! (and they happen to both be on the same sidecookoo) I'd honestly rather have the bench in this case. They are mildly comfortable...

Might as well detail the proposed performance plans:
6.9l (or so I thought!...) studded and rebuilt. Stage 1 turbo or built equivalent with a frozen boost intercooler set up. 130 or 110 CDD pump on R&D stage one injectors. Painted ford blue with silver accents. Bigger better radiator (undecided) R&D billet fuel return rails. Might run the mechanical pump with an electric one for purging to save the starter. Upgraded starter (power master). I probably forgot something...

Thanks for all the insight! Gonna be a fun project...


Thanks and Happy Tinkering!
-CalIDI
 

chillman88

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I don't remember exact numbers because I haven't had a 6.9 to worry about but I believe I've heard 6.9 blocks are only safe/reliable to around 15-20psi max when studded. I've also heard of people running 15-20+ on stock 7.3 head bolts without issues.

If you really want to make it bulletproof you can sleeve a 7.3 block but then you're getting into $$$

The wall thickness isn't a huge benefit like everyone thinks as long as you're running the correct coolant/additives a 7.3 block is fine. If you're really worried about it I believe there's a way to sonic test the block but I don't know any details about that, just remember hearing about it.

I don't want you to take what I'm saying as gospel, I just want you to do a little more digging before you spend your hard earned money and make sure you make the best call for yourself.
 

IDIBRONCO

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I was hoping to get 250 or 300, if I can out of the 6.9l.
If you're talking about crank HP, then I think that you should be able to do that.
I hadn't heard about the 6.9l being weaker in the heads
They aren't. It's the smaller diameter head bolts that are the weaker link.
Would I run into problems doing <15psi.
The generally accepted rule is a limit of 15 PSI with a studded 6.9. That's saying that it's the absolute limit. It's just the general safe limit. You may be able to run 22-23 PSI and not have any issues, then again, you may not. Just consider it a gamble. Are the risks worth the rewards?
Might run the mechanical pump with an electric one for purging to save the starter.
At your power levels, a mechanical pump may have trouble supplying enough fuel. You may have to look at a good, quality electric pump. I can't say for sure. Just be aware of the possibility. It would be a good idea to ask CDD and/or R&D what they would recommend for your set up.
 

CalIDI

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I don't want you to take what I'm saying as gospel, I just want you to do a little more digging before you spend your hard earned money and make sure you make the best call for yourself.
For sure. Been researching mostly what I need for getting the truck running before doing any go-fast parts... Thanks!

They aren't. It's the smaller diameter head bolts that are the weaker link.
Interesting. I'll have a 7.3l Block that I might be able to sleeve (from the one in the truck) if it isn't cavitated or etc... I'll tear it apart once there is something else powering the truck.

At your power levels, a mechanical pump may have trouble supplying enough fuel. You may have to look at a good, quality electric pump. I can't say for sure. Just be aware of the possibility. It would be a good idea to ask CDD and/or R&D what they would recommend for your set up.
Good to know. Definitely gonna call them first. Thanks! I be looking into them...

A buddy of mine had a 6.9, studded with custom copper head gaskets. Hylomar too IIRC... Probably not gonna go that route, but I guess its proof of concept. He doesn't remember which company he used. Somebody in Colorado...

Has anyone ever drilled and tapped a 6.9l block to accept 7.3l studs? I haven't looked at bolt spacing, but if they are the same, it would be cheaper to drill & tap it than to sleeve a 7.3l... Just another crazy thought I figured I'd throw out there.

Question:
Would doing oil samples be worth the time/money to tell me how worn out the swap-in 7.3 is? Not worth it? Worth it?

Thanks & Happy Tinkering!
-CalIDI
 

Nero

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Oil samples are cheap, and would tell you a lot about the engine. So would compression test and cylinder leak down test. If all those are pass with flying colors, I wouldn't even bother cracking it open, unless doing head studs or something.
 

CalIDI

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Oil samples? Nah I would stick it in and send it, but I am the type of guy that would just compression test it and send it.
I would too if I had a compression tester... Ive had enough bad experiences with cheap testers (for gassers) that I won't buy a cheap one for this project... I'll borrow or get a good one at some point...

Oil samples are cheap, and would tell you a lot about the engine. So would compression test and cylinder leak down test. If all those are pass with flying colors, I wouldn't even bother cracking it open, unless doing head studs or something.
Looks like I'll do oil samples...

Thanks & Happy Tinkering!
-CalIDI
 

IDIBRONCO

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I'll have a 7.3l Block that I might be able to sleeve (from the one in the truck) if it isn't cavitated or etc
The way to repair a block with cavitation is to sleeve that cylinder so it won't be a problem even if it is cavitated. People act like a block with cavitation is junk. It's not, but it is expensive to repair.
Has anyone ever drilled and tapped a 6.9l block to accept 7.3l studs?
I've seen several people say that there's not enough material to do this. You're talking about 7/16" studs versus 1/2" studs.
I haven't looked at bolt spacing, but if they are the same, it would be cheaper to drill & tap it than to sleeve a 7.3l.
Yes they gave the same bolt pattern. Unless you're going to make a lot of boost, the easiest way (to me) to seal up the heads after doing the 6.9 cooling mod to your 7.3 is to use 6.9 head gaskets. I've been running that way with my Blue Truck for about 4 1/2 years. of course I'm still N/A unfortunately. This engine won't see high enough boost to need more than 6.9 head gaskets. The difference is that 6.9 head gaskets have a thinner fire ring around the cylinders. A 7.3 N/A has thicker fire rings, while the 7.3 Turbo gaskets have the thickest ones.
 

IDIBRONCO

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So, are you infering that it can be done?
No. I'm sticking with the not enough material to recut threads. Although there is only 1/32" difference between each side of the hole centers (in theory), you're also talking about different thread counts as well. That's why there isn't enough material to recut the 1/2" threads.
 
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