Electric fuel pump

[IDIBRONCO]

plus it is easy to disable the truck (theft proof).

Completely overkill for me. My saying is this. "The best part of driving an old, ugly truck like mine is that you can leave it unlocked, keys in the ignition, a $100 bill on the dash, and a note that says you can have this but you have to take the truck too. In the morning, everything will still be there when you come out of the house!"

 

[Selahdoor]

I bought into this once...
Think on it... Pump quits, dumping fuel into engine(I posit nothing going into i.p.) Thus eng dies...
You gotta do a pump, how big a deal is an oil change in comparison???

You are thinking catastrophic failure, or no failure at all.

I am talking about the membrane just getting a bit of a leak in it.

It happens. The pump keeps working. The IP gets fed. But a little bit of each cycle gets through the membrane into the sump.

A couple of people here have already said it happened to them. It happened to me twice. Once on a chevy, once on a datsun. Long time ago. But it does happen.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

You are thinking catastrophic failure, or no failure at all.

I am talking about the membrane just getting a bit of a leak in it.

It happens. The pump keeps working. The IP gets fed. But a little bit of each cycle gets through the membrane into the sump.

A couple of people here have already said it happened to them. It happened to me twice. Once on a chevy, once on a datsun. Long time ago. But it does happen.

This is why I check the oil level while getting fuel and smell it each time. Even a *little* diesel smell will be easily identifiable vs plain oil! A little trick I picked up from a master mechanic some years ago.

 

[snicklas]

We actually had a member on here this actually happened to. He used "hotshot" vintage campers and farm tractors. He developed a leak (but didn't catch it) and filled the oil with diesel and killed it. However, this is the only time I've ever heard of someone having a catastrophic failure like this. That being said, all my IDI's have had the mechanical pump. Yes there is a chance they could fail, but there is a chance that a lot of things could happen. The drain plug could fall out, you could run over something and poke a hole in he pan. You could blow a steer tire and take everything above it out (seen that happen too). Driving anything is a calculated risk, and the chance of a mechanical pump fail to the point of destroying an engine, vs the chance of an aftermarket electric leaving me on the side of the road and walking, I'll take my chances with the mechanical.

Par of this is based off of personal experience. In all the vehicles I've had, I've had issues with 4 fuel pumps total. One mechanical pump on our 85 E-150 carbed 302, and three electric pumps, and 85 Colony Park Wagon, EFI 302, 98 Sable Wagon, and a 2000 P71 Crown Vic. This is spread out over close to 40 vehicles total (Dad, My Son and Me) and only had 4 fail. We keep our vehicles for a long time. A 300,000 mile trade in mileage isn't unusual for us.......

 

[Selahdoor]

We actually had a member on here this actually happened to. He used "hotshot" vintage campers and farm tractors. He developed a leak (but didn't catch it) and filled the oil with diesel and killed it. However, this is the only time I've ever heard of someone having a catastrophic failure like this. That being said, all my IDI's have had the mechanical pump. Yes there is a chance they could fail, but there is a chance that a lot of things could happen. The drain plug could fall out, you could run over something and poke a hole in he pan. You could blow a steer tire and take everything above it out (seen that happen too). Driving anything is a calculated risk, and the chance of a mechanical pump fail to the point of destroying an engine, vs the chance of an aftermarket electric leaving me on the side of the road and walking, I'll take my chances with the mechanical.

Par of this is based off of personal experience. In all the vehicles I've had, I've had issues with 4 fuel pumps total. One mechanical pump on our 85 E-150 carbed 302, and three electric pumps, and 85 Colony Park Wagon, EFI 302, 98 Sable Wagon, and a 2000 P71 Crown Vic. This is spread out over close to 40 vehicles total (Dad, My Son and Me) and only had 4 fail. We keep our vehicles for a long time. A 300,000 mile trade in mileage isn't unusual for us.......

Good points. Good points!

I agree.

The only place we differ is that I would prefer to carry an extra electric pump, and whatever tools it would take, to change it. Both the vehicles I had where the mechanical fuel pump failed, were gas engines. Gas or diesel, I REALLY don't want to replace another engine because of that kind of failure.

Plus, I do put the pump in a very accessible place. I don't want to lay in a mud puddle and fool with the plumbing, and electrical issues...

As for draw from the wheelwell instead of the frame... I DID buy an electric pump one time, that simply would not draw from anywhere but as close to the tank as possible, on the frame. I don't think I paid more than 12 bucks for that pump. But that is just one pump in 7. The rest all drew just fine from the doghouse, for as long as I, (or wife or kids.), owned the vehicle.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

We actually had a member on here this actually happened to. He used "hotshot" vintage campers and farm tractors. He developed a leak (but didn't catch it) and filled the oil with diesel and killed it. However, this is the only time I've ever heard of someone having a catastrophic failure like this. That being said, all my IDI's have had the mechanical pump. Yes there is a chance they could fail, but there is a chance that a lot of things could happen. The drain plug could fall out, you could run over something and poke a hole in he pan. You could blow a steer tire and take everything above it out (seen that happen too). Driving anything is a calculated risk, and the chance of a mechanical pump fail to the point of destroying an engine, vs the chance of an aftermarket electric leaving me on the side of the road and walking, I'll take my chances with the mechanical.

Par of this is based off of personal experience. In all the vehicles I've had, I've had issues with 4 fuel pumps total. One mechanical pump on our 85 E-150 carbed 302, and three electric pumps, and 85 Colony Park Wagon, EFI 302, 98 Sable Wagon, and a 2000 P71 Crown Vic. This is spread out over close to 40 vehicles total (Dad, My Son and Me) and only had 4 fail. We keep our vehicles for a long time. A 300,000 mile trade in mileage isn't unusual for us.......

What I took away from your experience was that while you only had four fuel pump failures out of all of these vehicles and miles, 75% were with electric fuel pumps. Each to their own, but for me, I prefer K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). In my opinion, unless you need more fuel flow than a mechanical pump can supply, then adding an electric fuel pump just adds to the complexity and possible failures of our very simple engines. I'd bet that at least 98% of us will never need more fuel than a mechanical pump can supply.

 

[Selahdoor]

What I took away from your experience was that while you only had four fuel pump failures out of all of these vehicles and miles, 75% were with electric fuel pumps. Each to their own, but for me, I prefer K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). In my opinion, unless you need more fuel flow than a mechanical pump can supply, then adding an electric fuel pump just adds to the complexity and possible failures of our very simple engines. I'd bet that at least 98% of us will never need more fuel than a mechanical pump can supply.

Well, that's it. You two are off of my Christmas list.



On the serious side, though, this is a great example of personal preferences, and for good reasons, all around.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Well, that's it. You two are off of my Christmas list.



On the serious side, though, this is a great example of personal preferences, and for good reasons, all around.

I agree completely.

 

[raydav]

Look at the first few pics. That is a two micron Racor filter before the pump. That pump has been supplying the engine for about fifteen years. There is no return line, no need.

The vehicle is an 84, it shipped with a 460, and never had a mechanical pump.

https://goo.gl/photos/LJNV4esgmYmSzKdL8

This is a similar setup on my PSD. It is the same 2 micron Racor filter, a pump that maintains 60# in a regulated return system, and a thirty micron filter to catch busted pump parts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GsWfPtEjr3w29Sq89

 

[Ilovelamp]

Alr

Look at the first few pics. That is a two micron Racor filter before the pump. That pump has been supplying the engine for about fifteen years. There is no return line, no need.

The vehicle is an 84, it shipped with a 460, and never had a mechanical pump.

https://goo.gl/photos/LJNV4esgmYmSzKdL8

This is a similar setup on my PSD. It is the same 2 micron Racor filter, a pump that maintains 60# in a regulated return system, and a thirty micron filter to catch busted pump parts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GsWfPtEjr3w29Sq89

Alright, I'm interested... How do you get away with not having one? Also did you zinc plate and yellow chromate your own bolts

 

[raydav]

Alr

Alright, I'm interested... How do you get away with not having one? Also did you zinc plate and yellow chromate your own bolts

All those pumps are sold as carburetor system pumps. One way or another they are self limiting. The pump in the second pic I have used on that van since the early nineties. I had three for a while, one for each tank. I could pump a tank dry to a carburetor because a carburetor doesn't mind air. When I switched to the IDI I changed to one supply pump and one transfer pump. I have only retired one of that type ever.

You are aware I dumped the stock filter assembly on both the IDI and PSD, but kept the dirty filter switch on the IDI?

I had a short between the head sets. I was only thinking about the fuel pump. I do not have a return for the supply pump. The returns for the IP and injectors were not involved in the pump and filter changes, were unaffected, and remain as installed stock.


As for the bolt finish, I assume you are referring to the engine on the stand. They are flange head bolts and nuts and they come with that finish.

 

[Ilovelamp]

So I'm guessing you're saying the regulated pump is sufficient and that's what there is no need for the return?

No I didn't realize you weren't using the stock filter setup, I moved mine to the frame to maintain all the factory lights and such in the dash. I'm not sure I know what a dirty filter switch is.

Those are the bolts I'm referring to. I'm refinishing all my own factory ones. I have a nice finish, but not quite as nice as that factory look.

 

[Garbage_Mechan]

Look at the first few pics. That is a two micron Racor filter before the pump. That pump has been supplying the engine for about fifteen years. There is no return line, no need.

The vehicle is an 84, it shipped with a 460, and never had a mechanical pump.

https://goo.gl/photos/LJNV4esgmYmSzKdL8

This is a similar setup on my PSD. It is the same 2 micron Racor filter, a pump that maintains 60# in a regulated return system, and a thirty micron filter to catch busted pump parts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GsWfPtEjr3w29Sq89

Wow, a dually van! I spy a lot of cool stuff: remote mount turbo, alternator belt anti flop pulley, Mann Provent, valley pan with no CDR grommet hole, probably missed a lot. Nice!

 

[Alwaysreadyrob]

I got a Holly Black pump... havent had a chance to see its performance yet though. Oh i have a 94 IDI stock Turbo beefed up.

 

[raydav]

So I'm guessing you're saying the regulated pump is sufficient and that's what there is no need for the return?

No I didn't realize you weren't using the stock filter setup, I moved mine to the frame to maintain all the factory lights and such in the dash. I'm not sure I know what a dirty filter switch is.

Those are the bolts I'm referring to. I'm refinishing all my own factory ones. I have a nice finish, but not quite as nice as that factory look.

None of the pumps I show need a return line.

I tossed the stock filter in favor of a two micron Racor.

The only filter related light I recall is the one that indicates it is dirty. The IP is capable of pulling a vacuum from the fuel supply system, but it is not supposed to. If the IP does pull a vacuum, it is because there is a restriction, and the switch closes and the light lights. I kept the switch and light.

At least twice I have driven off with the supply pump not running and the engine did not seem to notice. The IP pulled fuel thru the filter and idle supply pump.

Here are a couple bolt companies.

https://www.flangebolts.com/
https://www.boltdepot.com/Flange_bolts.aspx?nv=l