Yet another Compound turbo Thread

[84TD]

My idea is a little different cause it is half done. I have a hypermax setup on my truck now, while it was fast at first, I feel the need for more speed. I want 10psi all the time, even right off the line. So I was thinking, what If I got a larger wastgated turbo, adjusted it so it wouldn't put out more than 10psi (is this how a wastegated turbo works?) and put it in front of my hypermax setup? One question i have is what do you do with the air exhausting from the second turbo? I guess it wouldnt need to go anywhere right? its not hot stinking exhaust, just alot of air. In my mind it doesnt seem that hard. But I know it would be. Just an idea I was thinking of on my way home yesterday.

 

[Darrin Tosh]

Barney, Look what you have started!!

 

[flatlander]

I don't know what you mean by "in front of " your hypermax turbo.

 

[FordGuy100]

I think he's saying he wants to use the big turbo to spool up the hypermax turbo he has.

 

[84TD]

Actually, I was thinking my hypermax setup would spool a larger turbo, would that work? So my turbo would push the normally exhaust side of a larger turbo and that larger one would pull air in and force it into the engine. isnt that how it is done? a smaller pushes a larger? Then the larger would have to be limited to 10~12 psi some how. I just want more boost sooner. Right now all I see is 6psi and that is at around 2700 rpm. I want lots of boost early. If the engine can handle 12, it should be able to handle that all the time right?

I really dont know much about turbos so if this idea is ridiculous, tell me.

Another idea I had is maybe there is a single turbo that could meet my wants that would bolt up in place of the hypermax.

 

[6xCrew]

What about dual sidewinder setups? Since they only use the exhaust from half the engine. Set up a second one on the other side. Plumb them both in the intake? Max PSI would be the same but you would have the capabillity to move 2x the air at any given time. Is the sidewinder waistgated? Maybe a BOV just in case it can give too much boost? Use the dual sidewinders to spool your hypermax? Now that might be a fun thought. Tripple turbo setup? Spin the crap out of the hypermax.

Calvin

My thoughts on your using the hypermax to spool a bigger turbo is you still need to spool the hypermax AND THEN spool the larger trubo. That might take a while.

 

[Cowboy_Customs]

ok, here is how a compound (twin) setup works. The small turbo is the FIRST turbo in the setup, its job is to compress the exhaust into the big turbo which in turn compresses the intake air into the small turbo which compresses it further.
What twins are for is HIGH pressure like 60+ PSI not 12psi. The reason being is it requires that much air flow to help fuel with the amount of fuel thats comming out of the injectors.
With the proper setup u get lots of boost, and quick spoolup.

What you are wanting to do is get more boost, correct? u need more fuel. and if your fuel screw is maxed then u either need to adjust your wastegate for more boost, or rebuild your IP cause its about dead.

Boost is directly related to how much fuel u are putting into the cylinders (nonwastegated turbos only, or closed wastegates) Plus the size of the turbo.

Im sorry, but twins are not feasable or in any way nessecary on any IDI on the planet. when folks say 15PSI is tops boost for one of these, twins just are not for u, they are for MONSTER power, and BIG fuel.

I see soo much about guys wanting to put twins on these motors, but dont understand how they work or why guys put them on.

Big turbos = lag and high EGT's
Small turbos = quick spool

Im sorry guys, but twins are not for IDI's. Now if its a layout like a gas v8 with 1 turbo feeding 4 cyl. then fine. but NOT compounds.

 

[6xCrew]

And I thought the dual sidewinders would be fun. It would not increase max PSI but would double the flow possiblitiy of the air. Would reduce lag? Maybe a BOV would be needed to remove excess air though at the higher RPMs. Maybe I am on crack. Not the first time.

Calvin

 

[flatlander]

ok, here is how a compound (twin) setup works. The small turbo is the FIRST turbo in the setup, its job is to compress the exhaust into the big turbo which in turn compresses the intake air into the small turbo which compresses it further.
What twins are for is HIGH pressure like 60+ PSI not 12psi. The reason being is it requires that much air flow to help fuel with the amount of fuel thats comming out of the injectors.
With the proper setup u get lots of boost, and quick spoolup.

What you are wanting to do is get more boost, correct? u need more fuel. and if your fuel screw is maxed then u either need to adjust your wastegate for more boost, or rebuild your IP cause its about dead.

Boost is directly related to how much fuel u are putting into the cylinders (nonwastegated turbos only, or closed wastegates) Plus the size of the turbo.

Im sorry, but twins are not feasable or in any way nessecary on any IDI on the planet. when folks say 15PSI is tops boost for one of these, twins just are not for u, they are for MONSTER power, and BIG fuel.

I see soo much about guys wanting to put twins on these motors, but dont understand how they work or why guys put them on.

Big turbos = lag and high EGT's
Small turbos = quick spool

Im sorry guys, but twins are not for IDI's. Now if its a layout like a gas v8 with 1 turbo feeding 4 cyl. then fine. but NOT compounds.

Well, crap now what am I going to do?

 

[Cowboy_Customs]

Sorry, I didnt want to burst your bubble, BUT basically what compunds are is a stock sized turbo feeding a turbo from an N14 cummins, or a 12.7 litre detroit, to force more air to feed the diesel being injected into the motor, in an effort to lower EGT's, and use more of the available fuel being sprayed from the injectors.

Unfortunatly Banks didnt really play with the turbo's in the sidewinder kits making available exhaust housings for swapping out. In the Cummins world the exhaust housing and compressor housing is everything. I dont remember what it was like with my bud's banks kit 7.3 IDI, so I dont remember just how much lag was there.

This is why I want to build a turbo setup for my '92 using my turbo's from my wrecked cummins. Using the holset H1C turbo's, I know the aftermarket and effect each componant has on the lag and boosting ability.

 

[flatlander]

Actually, I was thinking my hypermax setup would spool a larger turbo, would that work? So my turbo would push the normally exhaust side of a larger turbo and that larger one would pull air in and force it into the engine. isnt that how it is done? a smaller pushes a larger? Then the larger would have to be limited to 10~12 psi some how. I just want more boost sooner. Right now all I see is 6psi and that is at around 2700 rpm. I want lots of boost early. If the engine can handle 12, it should be able to handle that all the time right?

I really dont know much about turbos so if this idea is ridiculous, tell me.

Another idea I had is maybe there is a single turbo that could meet my wants that would bolt up in place of the hypermax.

I think the problem you might run into with a hypermax is that it's not wategated, right? What they do is oversize the turbo so that it won't overspeed and therefore overboost based on a turned up stock fuel pump.

I think you'd be better served to put more fuel into your truck. A homemade propane system would help. Darrin Tosh has it on his non wastegated truck and it hits 15 psi rather easily. Then get a stage 1 or better IP. Stay tuned to this board because Mel might have a surprise for us soon.

 

[Cowboy_Customs]

Well, crap now what am I going to do?

I remember someone did have a compound setup on here but didnt remember who.
What benefits did u see from the setup u made? The basis of what folks build em for is like I posted earlier, but to build one for chits n giggles is another. Yeah Id love to say I have a twin turbo IDI, but is it functional?

Not trying to knock anyone, but there is an abundance of twin turbo, compound turbo threads here, n folks just dont understand the basis of why u put compounds on a truck.

 

[flatlander]

I remember someone did have a compound setup on here but didnt remember who.
What benefits did u see from the setup u made? The basis of what folks build em for is like I posted earlier, but to build one for chits n giggles is another. Yeah Id love to say I have a twin turbo IDI, but is it functional?

Not trying to knock anyone, but there is an abundance of twin turbo, compound turbo threads here, n folks just dont understand the basis of why u put compounds on a truck.

Did you see this:

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I did it for ***** and giggles, but thus far without changing anything in my fuel system, I hit 15 psi and can pull the TT all day long at 10 psi and never cross the 650 EGT level.

As soon as I get done with a few other projects, I plan on doing some fuel system mods. Then it'll get fun.

 

[TLBREWER]

Hey Barney

Didn't you win "best engine" and "best modification" at the rally last month?

How about a custom tunnel ram intake with a very small wastegated turbo and a big wastegated turbo, both getting fed from separate exhaust banks, and connected to a Y pipe at the intake with an integral valve that transitions from one to the other depending on boost requirements. Barney you want to get started on that and let us know how it turns out.

Tom

 

[FordGuy100]

Hey Barney

Didn't you win "best engine" and "best modification" at the rally last month?

How about a custom tunnel ram intake with a very small wastegated turbo and a big wastegated turbo, both getting fed from separate exhaust banks, and connected to a Y pipe at the intake with an integral valve that transitions from one to the other depending on boost requirements. Barney you want to get started on that and let us know how it turns out.

Tom

That would be some type of hard that I couldnt contemplate. Maybe at the Y have a flapper valve with a spring in it positioned between were the v comes together, and have the spring on the small turbo side. That way when the large one spools up, it will close the flapper valve and the small turbo wont get all fubared. Just a thought, but I doubt it will work .