Which heater core?

saburai

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Can you use a ratchet/nutdriver and unplug electrical connections? Lol

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

I sure can!

I'm only asking because I'm so darn busy I didn't even have the time to look. Also, on other vehicles, it's not so simple. I have a bit of free time today. I took a look, easy peasy. I pulled out the blower motor and wow! Is the bearing ever shot, it's got 1/8" play. No wonder it's howling! Resistor is toast too. Rock Auto seems to have everything. Cheaper than NAPA and on par with Amazon.com
Now if I could find the time to intercool the old mule...
 

Fixnstuff

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The next guy is gunna cuss you for gluing the core in with rtv.
Duck **** or plumbers putty are removable.

THANKS FOR MENTIONING THAT!

I think that ULTRA-BLACK RTV is over-kill for making the gasket between the cover and the air box, too difficult to separate and might stick too well. It's for high temperature 'heavy duty oil' applications. The original gasket maker didn't stick to either the cover flange or the box. It just formed a nice flexible black rubber gasket that peeled right off - almost in one piece and almost re-usable as a gasket except that it broke in a couple of places. That's what I want to use for the cover seal as soon as I can figure which of 10-020 different products to use. It seems like basic silicone but in 1987 it might have been butyl rubber.

In the engine compartment on the firewall, that whole horizontal seam to the left of the heater core tubes needs to be resealed and I haven't decided what to use on that yet.

The heater core tubes actually come though one large elongated oval shaped hole on the steel firewall and inside the firewall is a dense and very thick foam rubber seal with two holes that the tubes pass through. I think it would be a mistake to use a solvent based seal on that foam rubber because it would damage it, especially when removing the sealant later. This is around the tubes so it does make good sense to use something like plumber's putty at that location. I'd like to find something better than plumber's putty though.

Right now I am confused but I'll search for different products later and figure it out.
 

Clb

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Fwiw

The hood to cowl rubber seal (yep there was one) helps keep the hvac dry.

The old heavy foam gasket around the hose nipples can be had at sporting goods stores grab a foam sleepin bag liner\pad.

Open cell foam weatherstrip can be substituted for door , hatch gasket
 

Fixnstuff

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Fwiw

The hood to cowl rubber seal (yep there was one) helps keep the hvac dry.
I replaced mine over a year ago, part ordered from LMC Truck. It seemed like a good quality seal, and it is as far as "quality" but on my truck it leaks really bad over the center area above the air cleaner! The upper lip of that seal which is supposed to seal against the hood is about 1/8 inch TOO SHORT for my Truck but probably not every truck.

I have a Banks Power Pack air cleaner cover with a big deep dish in the middle and a couple of weeks ago I found it to be nearly FULL of rain water! Approximately 1/2 Liter! The lip of that seal is NOT long enough for my truck! Either the cowl cover is bent or pushed down slightly in the middle or the hood is bent up very slightly in the middle so the seal lip does not touch the hood for about 12 inches along the center. Rain water appears to run over the edge of the hood and then travels under the hood toward the front and drips right onto the air cleaner cover where it collects in the middle. I have not found a remedy for this (that works) yet, so I am using an upside down 10 inch cooking pan lid with aluminum foil attached and extended toward the firewall to capture or divert any water that comes down and with a 6 inch dia. smooth stone in the middle to hold the upside down lid in place. I'll be posting about this issue with a photo elsewhere so people will be aware of this potential problem and be sure to check for it after or during a significant rain.

The old heavy foam gasket around the hose nipples can be had at sporting goods stores grab a foam sleepin bag liner\pad.

Open cell foam weatherstrip can be substituted for door , hatch gasket[/QUOTE]

THANKS for weather strip comment. That explains the extra wide strip of weather-stripping that comes with the heater core and I think that excess, even though it can be used for the cover, is probably more intended for door seals, such as the temperature door. It's thin enough that it should work fine for the cover.

About that thick foam gasket around the tubes before they go through the firewall, yes it's a dense open cell foam like a sleeping mat which I have seen in 2nd hand stores also. It is MORE like the high density black foam used in tool cases where the shape of the tool is cut out and layers removed for the tools to fit in. Also the foam end closures used on metal roofing seems to be the right density.

I have a lot of those types of foam here. IT MUST BE THE CORRECT THICKNESS, to match the original to work properly because of the space between the top of the heater core and the inside of the firewall.
I assume that's right.

That gasket is still in place in my truck. I thought it was glued in on the cab side of the firewall but maybe iut's being held there by remaining external sealant on the engine compartment side. I'll be checking that later and remove it if it's not glued in, since I have plenty of foam to make a new one. Otherwise I could leave it in place maybe but it doesn't appear to be in good condition. Sort of borderline condition.

I suspect that the heater core can hold it against the inside of the firewall with slight compression if it's properly sized, and then it can be installed onto the heater core first. If you have replaced that gasket before, is that how you did it? Otherwise you would have to glue it up in there first and I think the chances of having the holes in the foam line up correctly when the heater core is installed is not going to be easy.

That gasket is shown in the images I will be posting next from the 1987 Factory service manual.

Sorry this post is so long.
 

Fixnstuff

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From the first edition of the 1987 Ford Factory Service Manuals for Generation 8 vehicles., 1987-1991. printed in July 1986 and there are a few places where drawings were not been completely updated but these appear to be correct:

OOPS! I don't know where those images came from but not from MY manuals.
I have some better detailed images from my manuals but I will have to post these later tonight because it will be quite time consuming to prepare those for posting. I have to get some work done on my truck during the few remaining daylight hours.

You must be registered for see images attach


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chris142

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When I did my obs...
No matter who you buy from , it will be china alumin. Crap (you need to run an elect. Ground to it to stop electrollysis..)
UNLESS you go to brassworks and get an all brass unit.

Sit down before asking the price.
If you use gates EPDM heater hoses electrolysis won't be a problem. All the big auto parts stores carry the same part,just a different box.
 

Fixnstuff

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If you use gates EPDM heater hoses electrolysis won't be a problem. All the big auto parts stores carry the same part,just a different box.

I don't see how that is electrically possible. So, I did a search to find out what you are referring to.

All that I could find is the following document which discusses the rubber in the hose being formulated to resist SPECIFICALLY electro-chemical degradation of the rubber hose and reinforcement yarn.
It does not stop electrolysis nor electrolytic corrosion between the metal components in the cooling system, it refers only to the heater hose itself being resistant to electrochemical degradation.
This is discussed on Page 2:
https://www.gatesaustralia.com.au/~...-compatible-with-todays-hightech-coolants.pdf

Someone probably misunderstood what they had read or heard.

I don't know the solutions to these problemsor 'issues' yet and there are several potential issues (including electrical) depending upon the condition of each truck and which components are in it, Brass (copper+zinc) or Aluminum, or both.

I am personally not even certain that grounding the heater core will resolve an electrolytic corrosion issue (or make it worse)--> if there is a stray voltage to ground, so I'll have to analyse that until I am convinced that it will resolve the problem.

By the way, it will be very easy to mechanically attach a ground wire to the heater core that I bought. There are notches in the side brackets midway front and back that are perfect for attaching a wire with an eyelet using a small screw and lock nut, (no soldering required)
 

Clb

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No.
But napa's gates hose failed to seal!
No way to stop electrolysis without divorcement of metal contact!
Phawk. The of shore produce
 

Fixnstuff

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No.
But napa's gates hose failed to seal!
No way to stop electrolysis without divorcement of metal contact!
Phawk. The of shore produce

SO, grounding the heater core won't work, RIGHT? That's what I was thinking

I use Gates belts.

What I knew before about stopping galvanic corrosion (learned in the 1970's - studying ocean (salt water) yacht design/boat building and naval architecture), example: steel hull, aluminum super-structure (everything above the deck) and salt water is the electrolyte, was using a "Sacrificial Anode" bolted to the hull which would corrode and dissolve before the aluminum on the ship would be attacked.

Another more modern way is to generate a reverse voltage through the ship or yacht that cancels out the electrolytic current.

Decades ago I could have figured all of this out and had a solution in a few hours. Now days with medical/pain issues and side effects of meds I can't do it that way anymore. Takes about 30 times longer if I can accomplish it at all.

I gotta keep trying though! I don't want this aluminum heater core to fail prematurely and have to replace it again. OR WORSE, my really good brass/copper radiator!

I'll be changing to an Extended Life Coolant this year. If/when I can figure out what metal to use for a sacrificial anode and where to put it, I'll do it and then use a coolant filter system to capture any crud releaswed from the anode.

The EASY WAY is to just put the heater core in there, make SURE the coolant additives/SCAs are adequate and that it's not acidic, check for a stray voltage from coolant to good ground and fix any electrical problems that might be causing it.

In my case make sure that the coolant protects both Copper and Aluminum radiators.

Other trucks (other than mine) may be OK to just install the heater core and forget about it.
 

Clb

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Well
You are well versed in what the issue IS.
I WENT brass core, and a copper gd. Strap, with correct idi coolant.
Sacrificial anode is interesting...
Pulling an earth????
Without batt. Drain....
 

chris142

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I work at a radiator shop. I don't understand the hose thing either but that's how the salesman explained it to us. I'm going on 5 yrs on my Chinese aluminium heater in my truck. No leaks yet. Our supplier has a min charge. My cost on a copper heater core is $275 and that's before I put my tanks on it.
 

Fixnstuff

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I work at a radiator shop. I don't understand the hose thing either but that's how the salesman explained it to us. I'm going on 5 yrs on my Chinese aluminium heater in my truck. No leaks yet. Our supplier has a min charge. My cost on a copper heater core is $275 and that's before I put my tanks on it.

For the most part (almost always) Sales Reps are not very knowledgeable of the technical and scientific aspects of the products they sell. They do receive a technical overview which is not very deep and is created to use certain unique qualities of the product as sales points, like, the hose 'Resists electro-chemical degradation...' which at the time he was giving his sales pitch he may have said, "Resists corrosion..."

I would like to ask if you have a copper radiator in your truck? If so, those two different metals Copper(brass) and Aluminum in contact with the coolant in the system ordinarily would present a big problem with galvanic corrosion eating up the heater core.

HOWEVER, there are two things that prevent that from happening.

ONE: Your coolant has a substantial amount of anti-corrosion inhibitors, it's very alkaline, if it's properly maintained, pH 8.5 to 10.5 (recommended optimum by engine manufacturers) rather than acidic with pH below 7 which is in the middle mark and considered neutral. - although I don't think this is definite line, and corrosion can still occur if pH is above 7. Therefore if the coolant is in good condition it is not a good electrolyte for current to travel through.

As it gets old and the anti-corrosion additives are gradually depleted it becomes less alkaline and more acidic, becoming a better electrolyte for galvanic currents to flow through. THAT is when you will have galvanic corrosion a problems The source of that current is: the difference in electrical potential between the dissimilar metals Copper and Aluminum in contact with each other through the coolant mix in the cooling system which is the electrolyte. This is the same principle as a Lead Acid battery creating a current flow between the plates. What would happen in the cooling system is that aluminum atoms (or ions of aluminum) would be (I'll use this term): "etched" off of the internal surfaces of the heater core and transported toward the copper radiator until the aluminum heater core springs some leaks.

So, the number one most important thing is to use coolants that are compatible with the cooling system component metals AND to maintain the coolant condition by adding SCAs (Supplemental Coolant Additives which include corrosion inhibitors) as required and following recommended flush and change intervals.

BTW I am going with an Extended Life Coolant this year so I don't have to deal with those old methods and such frequent changes.

TWO: Secondly, the manufacturers of aluminum heater cores are (or certainly should be) well aware of these corrosion issues and this is how they have addressed it. (Based on reading the manufacturing processes of the heater core that I bought.)

They coat the heater core with a coating that protects the aluminum from corrosion and this is how that works. The surface coating itself has a higher electrical potential than the aluminum and that means it corrodes before the aluminum does. I might be a zinc coating and it reacts in the same way as a sacrificial anode. (I'll put up a few links shortly that explain these terms and what is happening in th cooling system relating to corrosion). Those atoms from the coating will be removed from the surface rather than the aluminum, even if the aluminum becomes exposed, the coating will corrode first. I think the coating may leave an oxidation layer that still offers some protection from galvanic corrosion but I'm not sure.

So, THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN PREVENTING CORROSION OF COOLING SYSTEM COMPONENTS IS PROPERLY MAINTAINING THE COOLANT ---> Keeping it in good condition along with recommended flush and change schedules.

LOL. Up North where we have COLD winter climates I was raised calling it Anti-Freeze. Down South with HOT summer climates people apparently prefer the term 'Coolant.' It took me awhile to get used to that. I prefer the term Anti-Freeze because it seems to sound better in sentences.
 

chris142

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For the most part (almost always) Sales Reps are not very knowledgeable of the technical and scientific aspects of the products they sell. They do receive a technical overview which is not very deep and is created to use certain unique qualities of the product as sales points, like, the hose 'Resists electro-chemical degradation...' which at the time he was giving his sales pitch he may have said, "Resists corrosion..."

I would like to ask if you have a copper radiator in your truck? If so, those two different metals Copper(brass) and Aluminum in contact with the coolant in the system ordinarily would present a big problem with galvanic corrosion eating up the heater core.

HOWEVER, there are two things that prevent that from happening.

ONE: Your coolant has a substantial amount of anti-corrosion inhibitors, it's very alkaline, if it's properly maintained, pH 8.5 to 10.5 (recommended optimum by engine manufacturers) rather than acidic with pH below 7 which is in the middle mark and considered neutral. - although I don't think this is definite line, and corrosion can still occur if pH is above 7. Therefore if the coolant is in good condition it is not a good electrolyte for current to travel through.

As it gets old and the anti-corrosion additives are gradually depleted it becomes less alkaline and more acidic, becoming a better electrolyte for galvanic currents to flow through. THAT is when you will have galvanic corrosion a problems The source of that current is: the difference in electrical potential between the dissimilar metals Copper and Aluminum in contact with each other through the coolant mix in the cooling system which is the electrolyte. This is the same principle as a Lead Acid battery creating a current flow between the plates. What would happen in the cooling system is that aluminum atoms (or ions of aluminum) would be (I'll use this term): "etched" off of the internal surfaces of the heater core and transported toward the copper radiator until the aluminum heater core springs some leaks.

So, the number one most important thing is to use coolants that are compatible with the cooling system component metals AND to maintain the coolant condition by adding SCAs (Supplemental Coolant Additives which include corrosion inhibitors) as required and following recommended flush and change intervals.

BTW I am going with an Extended Life Coolant this year so I don't have to deal with those old methods and such frequent changes.

TWO: Secondly, the manufacturers of aluminum heater cores are (or certainly should be) well aware of these corrosion issues and this is how they have addressed it. (Based on reading the manufacturing processes of the heater core that I bought.)

They coat the heater core with a coating that protects the aluminum from corrosion and this is how that works. The surface coating itself has a higher electrical potential than the aluminum and that means it corrodes before the aluminum does. I might be a zinc coating and it reacts in the same way as a sacrificial anode. (I'll put up a few links shortly that explain these terms and what is happening in th cooling system relating to corrosion). Those atoms from the coating will be removed from the surface rather than the aluminum, even if the aluminum becomes exposed, the coating will corrode first. I think the coating may leave an oxidation layer that still offers some protection from galvanic corrosion but I'm not sure.

So, THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN PREVENTING CORROSION OF COOLING SYSTEM COMPONENTS IS PROPERLY MAINTAINING THE COOLANT ---> Keeping it in good condition along with recommended flush and change schedules.

LOL. Up North where we have COLD winter climates I was raised calling it Anti-Freeze. Down South with HOT summer climates people apparently prefer the term 'Coolant.' It took me awhile to get used to that. I prefer the term Anti-Freeze because it seems to sound better in sentences.
down here coolant is water. People think they don't need antifreeze so they run tap water with minerals in it! I now have an aluminum radiator. Had it 3-4 years. I actually have had to warranty 2 of them due to bad welds. Our go to coolant is HD green coolant with sca already in it.
 

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