What order should I upgrade...

[Macrobb]

@Macrobb is also using his pump and I belive injectors as well with no problems that I know putting out good numbers as well

Yup; 110cc pump and stock turbo putting out solid numbers(250 at the wheels) on a stock engine.
It's lower than that pump "should" do(needs more turbo), but it's amazing to drive - I took a 6%+ grade started at 60 hauling 3 tons of hay on a 1-ton trailer(15,000-ish CGVW), quickly hit 70, and by the top(where it got steeper) was down to 65, and in Overdrive the entire way.

With the stock IP, this truck barely did 60 with a single ton of hay in the bed, and no trailer(9,000 GVW), and I was in 4th.

Right now, I have just stock injectors in it; have a set of stage1s to put in it when I get the chance.

 

[chillman88]

@Macrobb thanks for chiming in. If I could get close to your setup I would be content. Yes the desire to push more would be strong but I'd have a good reliable tow rig which is what I'm shooting for.

The truck and trailer I hauled the other day probably weighs in about 6,000# and she was hurting on anything other than flat ground. I had to downshift a couple times to get back up to 50mph.

Sounds like I'll be calling R&D for his opinion on which pump meets my goals and doing pump and injectors.

I have a strong feeling that this truck will impress me with a new IP and injectors with the timing set right. No it won't be a record setter, but I think it'll be night and day difference. My other truck is "rated" 230ish hp and 250?Ish torque. Going by that, butt dyno says I'm about 120hp/200tq lol I honestly kinda want to dyno it before work just to see what I'm putting down for comparison sake.

 

[DougsOBS]

I am in a pretty similar situation, and decided to go pump then turbo. I had Mel at Contestoga put a Moose Jr on and my truck is night and day better. Idle quality is much better and the power curve is much much more usable. Might give him a call as well.

 

[Macrobb]

Going by that, butt dyno says I'm about 120hp/200tq lol I honestly kinda want to dyno it before work just to see what I'm putting down for comparison sake.

A NA engine(or turbo engine with the pump set to NA levels) will put out about 125 at the wheels... when optimally tuned.
I saw one guy put down 85(!) HP on the dyno with a NA 7.3(and pump cranked up, making smoke), so the 'optimally tuned' bit is important.

 

[chillman88]

Oh wow, maybe I am worse than I thought.

Another thing is I never notice ANY smoke, even at WOT. Except on cold start when I get a little puff of white. It's hard to tell with a dually since the exit is behind the wheels but would timing do that or is it possible when the timing's set and I get a pyro I could turn up the fuel a hair until I get a light haze at WOT?

I think my current pump is from a 6.9, it has a c6 kickdown lever (truck is a ZF5) and no boss on the front for a wrench.

I'm pretty sure the timing is retarded anyway because it seems to run a little stronger with the cold advance on, but it's not ANY louder with the cold advance on (except for the idle being high). I'm waiting to bump it up more until I can replace the leaky inlet olive on the IP. I still can't swing the money for a timing setup yet.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Sounds pretty slow to me. You can still advance your timing with the leaking olive. It could be a 6.9 pump, but the C6 was an option with the 7.3 for a year or two as well.

 

[chillman88]

Sounds pretty slow to me. You can still advance your timing with the leaking olive. It could be a 6.9 pump, but the C6 was an option with the 7.3 for a year or two as well.

Well I can't get the pump to turn anymore even though I've loosened 6 injection lines. I'm thinking I need to loosen the feed line but I'm afraid if I do it'll leak worse because I disturbed it.

I haven't yet tried a big wrench to turn it but i can't see a good place to put one either. I hate to admit it but the way I was able to adjust was with a pry bar against the intake.

 

[pelky350]

The pump itself can only move like an inch in travel about, if the timing is still that far back you belive and doesn't get a "powerstroke" rattle as far as it
Can go advanced it maybe possible your lift pump isn't supplying enough pressure? Someone correct me if I'm wrong but when you have too much fuel pressure it advances the pumps timing and if it's low doesn't make the timing retarded? When my truck wasn't running right a long while ago before I got a turbo when I just got it I was disappointed at its power, one day it stopped running, diagnosed lift pump put a new one on and it finally had some get up and go! Even a bit of smoke at wot. Maybe check fuel pressure at filter head and see

 

[chillman88]

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I have the marks almost lined up. It's advanced just a hair more than in this picture. I should still have a little room to advance it but it won't go. I can't quite even get the lines to match up. The orientation of the picture is from the driver side so "up" would be advancing towards passenger side.

 

[Macrobb]

Looking at that picture, it sure looks like your IP is retarded by a few degrees compared to the marks.
The IP(right side) should be going towards the passenger side("UP") to advance it.

As far as binding goes, you'll need to loosen all the lines. ALL of them. You can get to the bottom two by removing the two just above them. I tend to just remove all 8 lines, get it close, then reinstall the lines.
Mind that removing the lines will require re-bleeding, as the lines will drain their fuel out on your work table.

 

[Thewespaul]

A healthy NA motor will make more than 125 at the wheels. Especially at my elevation. If you want to get the timing sorted spend the money and get yourself a timing light and you will use this invaluable tool the rest of your idi ownership, or you can rent one from icanfixall. Otherwise you are just guessing

 

[chillman88]

Yeah the timing setup is pretty high up on the list, I'm just broke right now.

I don't think icanfixall is renting meters again yet is he? Last I heard they kept getting broken during shipping.

I jumpered the cold advance to see what a difference it made. Wow. I just hauled that same truck and I was finally able to get out of my own way. I'm thinking I'll get those olive seals soon and see what I can do with adjusting it.

What's the cold advance, about 6 degrees?

 

[pelky350]

I believe it's only like 2-3 degrees on the cold advance however i belive it does mess with other stuff internally to the pump as well when it's engaged but the specifics I'm unsure of

 

[Macrobb]

A healthy NA motor will make more than 125 at the wheels. Especially at my elevation.

Got any references?

I've /seen/ one NA IDI on the dyno, making 85HP at the wheels. I'm at 2K elevation.

I've /heard/ of multiple NA IDIs making around 125 at the wheels vs the 185 rated crankshaft HP.
There's a topic over on FTE from a few years ago showing numbers between 143 and 109 for NA IDIs. Not sure on elevation.
I'd expect that with optimal power tuning, and possibly a cam or more fuel than stock, you'd make a little more than the rated 185 HP, but probably create more emissions(smoke) than stock too.

 

[chillman88]

I wouldn't have a problem being a little smokey as long as Egt's stay in check.

I'm hoping before I turbo to tune by pyro. Get my timing set right and turn up the fuel as high as I can with decent Egt's. I understand it won't be much on an N/A motor.

My understanding is Egt's in the 900 range are ok but stay under 1100 right? I don't think I've ever seen a definitive answer just don't go over 1200 is all I've seen.