What kind of power?

[82F100SWB]

Reason all you want, there will be no converting me back to a PSD, the one I did have rubbed me the wrong way, and I'm a die hard 80-86 guy, so, I'll be staying with a mechanical engine. Once I manage to kill my 6.9 with boost, it will probably be 12V time, unless something else comes my way...

 

[Diesel JD]

I agree with Kevin, they're both great motors....the computer controls cleaned up the emissions a bit until you added a chip to dump in lots of fuel on the PSD to meet what we thought were strict EPA requirements at the time. However I think a lot of the cleaner oil with the PSD has to do with better filtration as well as the lower emissions. My truck running on B100 does not foul the oil the way a 6.9/7.3 running on D2 will. I'm also running the NAPA version of the PSD filter. As far as making big HP I think the new engines or an old Cummins is the ticket, but I believe you can probably get 250 HP at the flywheel out of an IDI or 150-175 at the wheels, much beyond that and you are asking for it.

 

[Double-S-Diesel]

as for relaibilty, look around just in this post, TD has over 300, I have over 250, and know of lots more with over 200.

as for the clean oil, it is due to a cleaner burnin engine, in my 00 oil would stay clean, until i put the chip in, then it went black. my 96 is black all the time.

 

[Agnem]

Well, since I have both now, I can look around in the engine bay and say that for shear reliability, I still give the nod to the IDI. By virtue of fewer parts alone, the IDI has a better chance. I think the IDI's virtues are simplicity, reliability, and low cost. The PSD is also an excellent engine, and more up with the times, but like my 99' Ranger, not something that I would look forward to working on. I sure hope it is reliable, cause I don't want to touch it! I think the fundimental obstruction to building up an IDI is the precups. If you could find an injector that could reach farther in, and delete the pre-cups (would require welding a part of the head on each cylinder), you'd have a chance at making some real power. The removal of some of the pre-cup would reduce your compression, but to what I'd have no idea. You'd probably need a piston designed a little different to compensate for the angle of the injection spray.

 

[kcw12]

Double S Im not saying a PSD wont go 500k, but mel hit what i was trying to say right on the head.

 

[subway]

so what if we opened up the pre cup over the pistion and sunk the injector lower in the head? it would also lower the compression.

 

[Agnem]

I think you need to get rid of the hole in the pre cup.

 

[tonkadoctor]

so what if we opened up the pre cup over the pistion and sunk the injector lower in the head? it would also lower the compression.

I think that would be the key (as well as a properly sized wastegated turbo if it didn't already have one) but instead of opening the precup I'd remove it, have the entire precup and injector hole welded up. Then machine it for a new set of injectors like something from a 12 valve cummins that are readily available.

I'm thinking 12v cummins injectors because they already go into the cylinder at an angle on the cummins and should have the correct spray pattern for this mod if the newly machined hole can closely match the Cummins angle.

 

[Agnem]

Are injector line nut connections somewhat standardized, or would you need new lines (assuming you could bend the ones you have OK)?

 

[subway]

yea and by the time you do all of this it would be $$$ even if you could do all your own work. interesting to think about though. i will have to look at the cut aways again to get a more clear idea of what could be done.

 

[tonkadoctor]

Are injector line nut connections somewhat standardized, or would you need new lines (assuming you could bend the ones you have OK)?

Hmmmmm, Good question ..... Every injector line I have messed with have been pretty similar from 2 & 3 cylinder Yanmar and Kubota engines up to 400 HP CAT and Cummins engines, just different sizes of high pressure tube, fitting and nut.

Mabey somebody could send you an old 12 valve injector for comparison. Wish I had an old IDI head & injector and a Cummins injector laying around. This thread has me curious now.









Way things usually go is Ford had a "Better Idea" and threw a wrench in the works

 

[Diesel JD]

Sorry Nick but you can't really look at posts on her etlabout some problem always posting to determine reliabilty. For one things some of us just like to hang out here and help other folks with their issues and not always about a problem with the old IDI. Also the IDIs are mostly a lot older than the PSD engines...how reliable will they be when they are 20-25 years old? Maybe pretty reliable...just like the IDIs, who knows.

 

[92F350CC]

My question is, why DID ford go with an IDI instead of a DI when they first started putting diesels in. Dodge used a DI from the get-go, of course, they didn't start til 89', but still, shouldn't it have been doable?

 

[tonkadoctor]

My question is, why DID ford go with an IDI instead of a DI when they first started putting diesels in. Dodge used a DI from the get-go, of course, they didn't start til 89', but still, shouldn't it have been doable?

Just like the government the contract prolly went to the lowest bidder



Let's think back to the early to mid 80's.....

The automakers were not doing well, there were a lot of layoffs and GM pretty much soured the us on diesels with the gas engines they converted to diesels and put in cars in the late 70's ( I did several GM diesel to gas engine conversions in cars for many disgruntled owners back then in my years as a teenager).

Ford had a nice 460 that had been around for a while that developed pretty good torque and there were a lot of things available from the aftermarket for owners that wanted more power.....This is what a diesel would have to compete with.

Corporate bean counters would not want to completely redesign a truck for a diesel or develope their own diesel for an unknown market so they go .........shopping.

Voila...an engineer finds out that Navistar has a V-8 diesel that is close to the dimentions of a 460, can squeeze between the fenderwells, makes more low end grunt than a stock 460, passes epa emmisions, it's prolly the cheapest thing on the market and the talking heads decide to give it a try.

WOW... It's a success and Ford has the market cornered on the diesel truck market for a few years until Dodge steps in and starts handing them their @$$ on a silver platter.

It then takes the corporate bean counters 4 years to pony up the $$ for a turbo and while it helps they still need more. A year later they finally give in decide to pay up for the earth shaking Powerstroke and a new era of diesel performance that over the next 13 years diesel trucks triple in HP & TQ









Disclaimer..... Some of this story is true (sagging economy of the early 80's) and most of it is my opinion of how corporate America works. It's my story and I'm sticking too it.

 

[Agnem]

My question is, why DID ford go with an IDI instead of a DI when they first started putting diesels in. Dodge used a DI from the get-go, of course, they didn't start til 89', but still, shouldn't it have been doable?

Simple. It's what GM had just come out with. And both builders wanted a diesel that performed like a gas engine, to sell to a gas engine buying public. By the time Dodge entered the market, Ford and GM had already reshaped the buying publics mind, and opened them to the idea that a diesel was a viable alternative. Also no turbo = lower cost. Our IDI's really defined the industry for everybody else to follow with. Remember, those first Cummins were dogs in stock form.