This is my method.
Weird steering
- Thread starter BrianX128
- Start date
Big Bart
Tow&Slow
Brian,
How did you make out? Get it all done?
How did you make out? Get it all done?
New one hasn't arrived yet. Should be here tomorrow.
Put the new axle shaft in today, u joint was new everything looked good. Put everything back together, steering feels great now you can feel it be "free" and the old problem is totally gone.
However, now the truck has a mad wobble anything over 35 feels like it's gonna shake apart. Similar to horrible out of balance tire. Can't drive it like this. No idea what is causing it, all hubs on free, Put everything back together just like it was... makes no sense, can't find any play in the axle. Pretty frustrating since the part fixed my problem but this was not like this before.
However, now the truck has a mad wobble anything over 35 feels like it's gonna shake apart. Similar to horrible out of balance tire. Can't drive it like this. No idea what is causing it, all hubs on free, Put everything back together just like it was... makes no sense, can't find any play in the axle. Pretty frustrating since the part fixed my problem but this was not like this before.
You marked the shafts so everything went back together in the same orientation?
TNBrett
Full Access Member
Time to play detective and start looking for clues. Does it feel like it’s more one side than another? Have you looked closely at every single item you touched in this job? I would jack one tire off the ground at a time and spin it over looking for excess runout. You don’t necessarily need the precision of a dial indicator here. A stick in a bucket of sand would probably suffice. Look for a tire out of round, or a bent wheel. Grab the tire at 12 o’clock and 6 o’clock and give it a good tug. Repeat this at 3 and 9. Dig deep enough and you’ll likely find a clue.
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Double-S-Diesel
parts seller
you did the pass side , make sure the ujoint at the pumpkin and the wheel end are lined up the same
Big Bart
Tow&Slow
So Dana axles can develop something called the death wobble. Due to loose steering components or issues with alignment. The steering wobbles left to right causing an alarming shake of the vehicle.
So let us know if this is a simple out of ballance vibration (Like tire ballance) or if the truck goes into a unstoppable shimmy shake that only stops as you slow down.
So you did a lot of things during this repair, that could have started the issue.
So make these checks to see if you can find something wrong and fix the issue.
1) Make sure all 4 tires are filled to the correct psi.
2) Make sure your lug nuts did not come loose.
3) Did you by chance swap or rotate tires?
3) Jack up the front end, now that you drove it, confirm-
A) Your wheel bearings are not loose. It’s tricky to do wheel bearing lash with this hub system. Now that you drove it maybe the grease moved out, a bearing that was stuck slid further down the spindle, and it’s a little to loose.
B) You had to smack a lot on the spindle plate to get it out. Make sure it went in straight and torqued down even. I don’t think it’s caster or camber specific but did you put it back in the same way it cam out. (IE - Upside down from how it came off.)
C) Pry with a prybar to insure the upper or lower ball joint did not go bad from all the hammering.
D) See if you have any play in the steering. If so address, making some slight changes to camber or caster have set off this issue. It was getting ready to happen, you just accelerated it.
E) I cannot recal what tightens the axle shaft to the hub or rotor. But make sure the axle shaft is tight in the hub.
F) If all seems good get your tires rebalanced.
G) Then If not fixed it may be the axle shaft you bought is bent, out of ballance, or ???. So you may have to try another one. But guessing something else is causing this.
We have all been there, project from hell. When it rains it pours, but hang in there, you will figure it out.
Let us know more details about the vibration/shimmy.
So let us know if this is a simple out of ballance vibration (Like tire ballance) or if the truck goes into a unstoppable shimmy shake that only stops as you slow down.
So you did a lot of things during this repair, that could have started the issue.
So make these checks to see if you can find something wrong and fix the issue.
1) Make sure all 4 tires are filled to the correct psi.
2) Make sure your lug nuts did not come loose.
3) Did you by chance swap or rotate tires?
3) Jack up the front end, now that you drove it, confirm-
A) Your wheel bearings are not loose. It’s tricky to do wheel bearing lash with this hub system. Now that you drove it maybe the grease moved out, a bearing that was stuck slid further down the spindle, and it’s a little to loose.
B) You had to smack a lot on the spindle plate to get it out. Make sure it went in straight and torqued down even. I don’t think it’s caster or camber specific but did you put it back in the same way it cam out. (IE - Upside down from how it came off.)
C) Pry with a prybar to insure the upper or lower ball joint did not go bad from all the hammering.
D) See if you have any play in the steering. If so address, making some slight changes to camber or caster have set off this issue. It was getting ready to happen, you just accelerated it.
E) I cannot recal what tightens the axle shaft to the hub or rotor. But make sure the axle shaft is tight in the hub.
F) If all seems good get your tires rebalanced.
G) Then If not fixed it may be the axle shaft you bought is bent, out of ballance, or ???. So you may have to try another one. But guessing something else is causing this.
We have all been there, project from hell. When it rains it pours, but hang in there, you will figure it out.
Let us know more details about the vibration/shimmy.
Black dawg
Registered User
Is the wheel bolted on straight??
Perhaps this is a problem, since I put in a "new" shaft from a guy on ebay since I bent mine trying to get the caps out. I noticed my outer u-joint on the passenger side (side I worked on) is currently facing with cap straight ahead, my drivers side also is. However the "inner" u joint from the diff is off, I guess best way to explain it is two of the u joints are at 12/3/6/9 on a clock where one is at 130/430/730/1030 etc. Does this matter enough for me to rip the whole way into the spindle again?
I took everything apart again this morning into the spanner nuts as the passenger tire felt like it had more play grabbing at it and yanking it around, I took the spanner nuts off and shot pb blaster on the threads for the spanners, wiped that area off good and torqued them down to 70 and backed them off 1/4 of a turn like I read to do, the play now is minimal to none and matches the drivers side that I haven't touched. This helped, I can get to 45 with no issue but as soon as I go over the shimmy begins. You can go 65, but its obvious something is wrong. I just have no idea what else to do, I'm beyond irritated to the point I don't even want to work on the thing. I'm going to be in this more time than I would have to have taken it to someone at this point and unless that u-joint orientation is that important I can't find one thing that looks suspicious. I don't believe the shaft has anything to do with it either, its identical to the old one that was in the truck and the u joint that was in the old one was legit having an inch of rotational play because of the ujoint being so bad, and short of the steering going down the road being ****** around the truck drove better with the exploded one than it does with this spicer one that is clearly in better shape.
Big Bart
Tow&Slow
Couple more checks to add to the list above. The death wobble (If that is what you believe this is.) is usually more related to worn suspension components. But can be aggregated by a out of ballance wheel or hub and rotor. (Bent rim or out of ballance tire.). It can also be set off by hitting a crack or pot hole in the road. You mention yours seems to be set off by speed. If always at 35mph it would seem like something is out of ballance or loose.
1) Make sure all the c clips locked in place inside the hub. So everything is locked in place.
2) Disconnect one end of the steering damper, it should not have any loose play or be very easy to pull or push. If so replace, these can let the wobble start and not minimize it if they are bad. But still will want to find out what else in the steering system is loose or worn out.
3) Lock the hub on the side you replaced, rotate the rotor and hub and see if the new axle shaft has much run out. It should rotate evenly, not swing out of axis.
Let us know what you find from your checks.
1) Make sure all the c clips locked in place inside the hub. So everything is locked in place.
2) Disconnect one end of the steering damper, it should not have any loose play or be very easy to pull or push. If so replace, these can let the wobble start and not minimize it if they are bad. But still will want to find out what else in the steering system is loose or worn out.
3) Lock the hub on the side you replaced, rotate the rotor and hub and see if the new axle shaft has much run out. It should rotate evenly, not swing out of axis.
Let us know what you find from your checks.
The orientation side to side shouldn't matter, I usually mark the yokes to match the ujoints back together to keep it "factory". But if you replaced the shaft, then there isn't anytging to match up.
Big Bart
Tow&Slow
I was writing when you responded so just seeing the above.
I don’t understand what you are saying about the u-joints. Also if you mean axle shaft or drive shaft?
Let me take a stab at it.
Keep in mind you should have a limited slip front end, so the axle shafts at times (Based on u-joint orientation.) will be at different orientations. They don’t both clock in at 12 and 6 from the factory and always rotate in unison. So you could put them in unison, but after being in 4w drive and say doing several circles they would not end up in unison.(But go just far enough they could end up in unison again.). When doing circles the wheels turn at different rates, inner wheel makes a smaller circle and travels less than the outer wheel.
The u-joint only lets the axle shafts be put in two ways. First way or rotate one half of the axle 180 degrees and install. In therory it should not matter, but you always want to mark parts and install back the way they came off. (So did the seller do this, you don’t know.) It could be that axle shaft you got is out of balance or bent.(So look for run out.) A good driveline shop could check and ballance it for you. But generally this part is not going to be an issue even if put on 180 degrees opposite.
So how do you fix. I think at this point you should get your tires ballanced and check your steering damper. Take those out of the equation. The rotor only goes on one way so that should not be an out of balance issue. Your hub lock cap should not cause an out of balance issue either. Your wheel bearings are now tight.
So what else is in play. Just putting your out of balance tire on a different way could be the issue. You could have bent the shaft plate that has changed your alignment. (Rusted up solid, had to smack it out, so no fault of yours.) Putting your alignment off a couple degrees. That could be making the tire want to pull or push the other tire and one hops. It could be the axle shaft is out of balance.(Thus as you tightened the wheel bearing you did not notice till 45mph.) You could have a steering link or ball joint now loose from hammering. Shaft plate would have ****** on the steering linkage and ball joints. Which likely all have high mileage and wear.
So if me I would ballance and rotate my tires first. If my damper was questionable replace. It could be problem solved but good maintence at a minimum. Have someone check my alignment. (Depending on results, do some more investigation, if fairly off align to see effect.) Then have the axle shaft ballanced an likely replace the shaft plate.
Also if you took to a reputable shop they would of called upon removing the wheel and seeing the rust and said we have to upcharge you or replace several parts. They would be likely fighting this too upon reassembly and charging to do it. So don’t beat yourself up thinking it would of been more cost effective to drop off to a shop. Less frustrating for you to have a shop do it, for sure.
I don’t understand what you are saying about the u-joints. Also if you mean axle shaft or drive shaft?
Let me take a stab at it.
Keep in mind you should have a limited slip front end, so the axle shafts at times (Based on u-joint orientation.) will be at different orientations. They don’t both clock in at 12 and 6 from the factory and always rotate in unison. So you could put them in unison, but after being in 4w drive and say doing several circles they would not end up in unison.(But go just far enough they could end up in unison again.). When doing circles the wheels turn at different rates, inner wheel makes a smaller circle and travels less than the outer wheel.
The u-joint only lets the axle shafts be put in two ways. First way or rotate one half of the axle 180 degrees and install. In therory it should not matter, but you always want to mark parts and install back the way they came off. (So did the seller do this, you don’t know.) It could be that axle shaft you got is out of balance or bent.(So look for run out.) A good driveline shop could check and ballance it for you. But generally this part is not going to be an issue even if put on 180 degrees opposite.
So how do you fix. I think at this point you should get your tires ballanced and check your steering damper. Take those out of the equation. The rotor only goes on one way so that should not be an out of balance issue. Your hub lock cap should not cause an out of balance issue either. Your wheel bearings are now tight.
So what else is in play. Just putting your out of balance tire on a different way could be the issue. You could have bent the shaft plate that has changed your alignment. (Rusted up solid, had to smack it out, so no fault of yours.) Putting your alignment off a couple degrees. That could be making the tire want to pull or push the other tire and one hops. It could be the axle shaft is out of balance.(Thus as you tightened the wheel bearing you did not notice till 45mph.) You could have a steering link or ball joint now loose from hammering. Shaft plate would have ****** on the steering linkage and ball joints. Which likely all have high mileage and wear.
So if me I would ballance and rotate my tires first. If my damper was questionable replace. It could be problem solved but good maintence at a minimum. Have someone check my alignment. (Depending on results, do some more investigation, if fairly off align to see effect.) Then have the axle shaft ballanced an likely replace the shaft plate.
Also if you took to a reputable shop they would of called upon removing the wheel and seeing the rust and said we have to upcharge you or replace several parts. They would be likely fighting this too upon reassembly and charging to do it. So don’t beat yourself up thinking it would of been more cost effective to drop off to a shop. Less frustrating for you to have a shop do it, for sure.
Big Bart
Tow&Slow
Brian,
Be sure to read the above too.
Now I feel a little foolish, I keep thinking about my dana axle in my jeep. (Axle shafts spin with the wheels, no hub locks.) Works differently than your truck. With both of your hubs unlocked and your transfer case not in 4wd. Your rotor/hub should free spin and not turn your axleshaft. (Some friction may allow it to somewhat.) Now the odd part, you said this all started from the axle shaft pulling on your steering, but why? It should not of been engaging if your 4WD was off and your hub was unlocked. (But maybe does because the bad U-joint changed the angle of the shaft going in.)
Are you driving around the truck in 4wd high for some reason? If so put the truck in 2wd, hubs unlocked, and drive for a short bit to give everything time to undo from 4wd. Now when you roll around do you axle shafts turn at the same rate as the tires. In theory they should not. The tire should spin without having to move the axle shaft. So if this issue happens and your hub system is working, then the new axle shaft should not be the cause. Does not spin or only spins slowly. Now if it spins at the same rate something is no right, somthing is likely bent and the shaft and hub are binding against each other.
Now back to the great issue.
1) So if the hub luck is working on both sides, it would have to be something on the side you worked on is out of ballance. (Likely your tire and wheel.) Because the axle shaft should not be spinning fast enough to create an unballance. If it did it should not be felt in the steering.
2) Or the shaft plate is some how different. (Bent from hammering, in sideways or upside down.) causing a change to camber or caster.
3) Or something got loose in the steering from the repair and is occilating.
Hope that gives you some ideas of and an good order to go down the list.
Let us know what you found.
Be sure to read the above too.
Now I feel a little foolish, I keep thinking about my dana axle in my jeep. (Axle shafts spin with the wheels, no hub locks.) Works differently than your truck. With both of your hubs unlocked and your transfer case not in 4wd. Your rotor/hub should free spin and not turn your axleshaft. (Some friction may allow it to somewhat.) Now the odd part, you said this all started from the axle shaft pulling on your steering, but why? It should not of been engaging if your 4WD was off and your hub was unlocked. (But maybe does because the bad U-joint changed the angle of the shaft going in.)
Are you driving around the truck in 4wd high for some reason? If so put the truck in 2wd, hubs unlocked, and drive for a short bit to give everything time to undo from 4wd. Now when you roll around do you axle shafts turn at the same rate as the tires. In theory they should not. The tire should spin without having to move the axle shaft. So if this issue happens and your hub system is working, then the new axle shaft should not be the cause. Does not spin or only spins slowly. Now if it spins at the same rate something is no right, somthing is likely bent and the shaft and hub are binding against each other.
Now back to the great issue.
1) So if the hub luck is working on both sides, it would have to be something on the side you worked on is out of ballance. (Likely your tire and wheel.) Because the axle shaft should not be spinning fast enough to create an unballance. If it did it should not be felt in the steering.
2) Or the shaft plate is some how different. (Bent from hammering, in sideways or upside down.) causing a change to camber or caster.
3) Or something got loose in the steering from the repair and is occilating.
Hope that gives you some ideas of and an good order to go down the list.
Let us know what you found.
It's honestly so hot here in Pennsylvania and I've been working on enclosing my back porch all day that I probably won't get to this today.
88 and humid sucks for working on your day off lol..
I guess I'm gonna take it some night after work and get the tires balanced and go from there. The main issue I had to do this repair is that old axle shaft was totally seized up after you'd take a sharp turn or go down a steep hill that suddenly became flat, and it would lock the ujoint and force it to spin even though I'm in 2wd with hubs unlocked. I tried locking the hubs and driving in 4wd once today and nothing changed.
One question, on the style like mine with two spanner nuts does anything go between the inner most spanner nut and the outer bearing? I swear when I took mine apart and was at the step of taking the rotor off the small angled bearing hopped out but there was no other loose parts so I just shoved it back in the rotor and when I put the rotor back on I thought it was slightly odd to just be tightening the spanner nut to that but I had no extra parts and set everything out in order when I took it off the hub / spindle.
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88 and humid sucks for working on your day off lol..
I guess I'm gonna take it some night after work and get the tires balanced and go from there. The main issue I had to do this repair is that old axle shaft was totally seized up after you'd take a sharp turn or go down a steep hill that suddenly became flat, and it would lock the ujoint and force it to spin even though I'm in 2wd with hubs unlocked. I tried locking the hubs and driving in 4wd once today and nothing changed.
One question, on the style like mine with two spanner nuts does anything go between the inner most spanner nut and the outer bearing? I swear when I took mine apart and was at the step of taking the rotor off the small angled bearing hopped out but there was no other loose parts so I just shoved it back in the rotor and when I put the rotor back on I thought it was slightly odd to just be tightening the spanner nut to that but I had no extra parts and set everything out in order when I took it off the hub / spindle.
