Supercharged om617 powered scout build

[rembrant88]

My brother was going to buy a scout just like the one that was his first car, so I volunteered to do one a little better. 1966 International scout 800 4x4 and it is getting a mercedes om617 turbo diesel bolted to a nv3500 5 speed transmission. And I'll pull the turbo and slap on an Eaton m90 supercharger. Might go with another transmission that is easier to adapt over myself but I like the overdrive idea. The mercedes gets it's boost way to late, so with the m90 I should be able to get the power plenty low enough in the rpm band for the extra gear. Wish I still had my small whipple. Boost isn't high enough on these motors to run into much of a supercharger vs turbo efficiency argument, but even if a turbo is more efficient I think having smoother acceleration and boost from idle is going to improve mileage, especially for the highway fifth gear. Hard to believe the om617 gets such good mileage and lasts so long being run at 3000 rpm all the time. The scout doesn't need vacuum, power steering or air conditioning, so all those come off and I'll run a manual fuel shut off. I might run an electric fan if there is room. Exhaust gets a custom header with 3" pipe and a magnaflow. It has a shackle lift unfortunitly but I'll see how it runs on the road, and will get 33" tires on aluminum wheels. I was going to go all out on the axles but decided to keep it affordable and light for now. What do you guys think? Anybody on here put one of these in a scout?

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[rembrant88]

Fox external res. shocks.

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[opusd2]

This really looks like such a cool idea! I can't WAIT to see pics and read progress reports!

 

[rembrant88]

I'll brave the cold and pull the diesel engine this weekend. I still keep wanting to swap over some different axles, stock ones look so weak, but I want to keep this thing light and narrow to help mileage. As soon as I get this donor vehicle out of the way I'll also start back on my supercharged diesel bronco, thread over on FTE. Hopefully I can get both these projects done in time for the dyno days this spring and see what they get. Should be interesting.

 

[Redneck1465]

Can you post a link to the write up on FTE?

 

[rembrant88]

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1187478-supercharged-smokn-bronco-build-thread.html

Let me know if the link doesn't work. I was supposed to get the bronco done a long time ago but I got set wayyyyy back. It's supposed to warm up a few degrees around here this week so I should be able to get back on both projects. I still haven't decided how much boost and fuel to run on the 6.9. I'll start low no matter what. Rebuilt engine, so I'd hate to blow it up at 20 psi. Whatever works most efficiently is going to be where I keep it but I have to go for big power to at least see what the TVS can do. I won't run more than twelve on the mercedes engine. Probably keep it at around eight and not push it's limits. Looking for a flatter torque curve rather than an overall power increase.

 

[Redneck1465]

It worked thanks.

 

[rembrant88]

Back on it. Neighbors are bribed and I picked up the parts that came with the scout. And I have most of the other parts needed to make this happen. The scout my brother and I picked up came with two transmissions and transfer cases, the t90 3 speed and the t98 4 speed. Both have the dana 18 t case. I bought scout 2 dana 44 axles that are 3.07 gears so the 4 speed should be good enough for the highway with these axles. I decided not to risk running bigger tires with the smaller axles. This will work out better and keep things in there original positions, if I don't have to much difficulty adapting the t98 to the mercedes engine. For the axles I'm going to convert the front to coils and radius arms. I haven't decide whether to use the ford wedges and arms or if I should make my own brackets. The scout has a close ark in the frame so I'm wondering if I'll have trouble with the ford radius arms without adding a lot of lift. I don't want to go too crazy with this thing, just crazy enough . The rear axle will keep the scout 2 springs and will go spring over. The front seats are really nice. They were recently reupholstered, they are just dusty. I have the rear seats but they are in poor shape. I might just find a bench seat to go in back. I thought about taking the rear seats out of my bronco 2 that way they fold down, which would be cool. It will depend on whether the bronco goes to scrap or if I sell it. Gas tank is going to be a single rear 25 gallon. Maybe store some gas cans in the original tank slots and put them to use. The fox shocks will go on depending on the lift. I just want to use them. But they are only 6" travel so probably not. I will most likely go power steering. Might as well do it right the first time around. If I get the PS from a scout 2 than I won't have to modify the pitman arm, just an excuse really. I'll also install a scout 2 master cylinder since I'm buying new stuff anyway.

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[rembrant88]

What's with the picture options these days? Sometimes they do one thing and other times they do something else. The format hasn't changed so what gives?

 

[Blownoiler]

supercharging diesel engines

My brother was going to buy a scout just like the one that was his first car, so I volunteered to do one a little better. 1966 International scout 800 4x4 and it is getting a mercedes om617 turbo diesel bolted to a nv3500 5 speed transmission. And I'll pull the turbo and slap on an Eaton m90 supercharger. Might go with another transmission that is easier to adapt over myself but I like the overdrive idea. The mercedes gets it's boost way to late, so with the m90 I should be able to get the power plenty low enough in the rpm band for the extra gear. Wish I still had my small whipple. Boost isn't high enough on these motors to run into much of a supercharger vs turbo efficiency argument, but even if a turbo is more efficient I think having smoother acceleration and boost from idle is going to improve mileage, especially for the highway fifth gear. Hard to believe the om617 gets such good mileage and lasts so long being run at 3000 rpm all the time. The scout doesn't need vacuum, power steering or air conditioning, so all those come off and I'll run a manual fuel shut off. I might run an electric fan if there is room. Exhaust gets a custom header with 3" pipe and a magnaflow. It has a shackle lift unfortunitly but I'll see how it runs on the road, and will get 33" tires on aluminum wheels. I was going to go all out on the axles but decided to keep it affordable and light for now. What do you guys think? Anybody on here put one of these in a scout?

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I would expect economy to drop with the charger, but there are mods that can be done to improve the charged vehicles mileage. Changing from a turbo to blower on my toyota diesel increased fuel use from 12 litres per 100k to 14 litres per 100 k., but that was with the same gearing, a change of diff ratio might claw back some of the lost fuel efficiency, but if you go too far and lug the engine with full boost/throttle then be aware that the standard oiling system might not have enough in reserve to cope with the increased bigend load/heat, good oil pressure at lowish revs is a must under these conditions for long bearing life! Another way to increase mileage (and lower the thermal stress on the engine) is to run an active bypass valve from the blower outlet to the blower inlet, so that when cruising down the hyway at part throttle boost can be dropped to a lower no. rather than have 10 or more pounds of boost being forced into the engine when it's not really needed. You might have to retard the start of the injection event too, as the cylinder charge gets more dense the burn rate speeds up, leading to higher peak pressures- watch for excessive engine vibration levels.

 

[rembrant88]

I appreciate the tips. It's nice to hear from someone who has toyed around with the supercharger concept. I don't think he will be lugging the engine at all with the gearing it will have. 4.07 diff's on the 4 speed will still have the rpms up there on the highway. And it will of coarse have a pyro gauge. Because the oil will not be heated up by running through a turbo and because I might use a bigger oil cooler, I don't think the added heat from sustained boost or the higher cylinder pressures will cause a problem as far as engine reliability goes. At the rpm this vehicle will travel at in 4th gear I don't plan on the supercharger putting out more than 6 or 7 psi. As far as how sustained boost is going to effect mileage I don't know. That's why it's good to hear some figures from you. I think by freeing up the exhaust and keeping my IAT low by an intercooler or simply by keeping boost reasonable, I can make up for whatever fuel efficiencies exist from using a supercharger without having to bleed off the boost. But it is an experiment so who knows. I'd like to hear more about your engine and gearing, what kind of supercharger do you have on there?

 

[rembrant88]

Pictures worked this time . Maybe I did something wrong and didn't notice.

 

[Blownoiler]

I appreciate the tips. It's nice to hear from someone who has toyed around with the supercharger concept. I don't think he will be lugging the engine at all with the gearing it will have. 4.07 diff's on the 4 speed will still have the rpms up there on the highway. And it will of coarse have a pyro gauge. Because the oil will not be heated up by running through a turbo and because I might use a bigger oil cooler, I don't think the added heat from sustained boost or the higher cylinder pressures will cause a problem as far as engine reliability goes. At the rpm this vehicle will travel at in 4th gear I don't plan on the supercharger putting out more than 6 or 7 psi. As far as how sustained boost is going to effect mileage I don't know. That's why it's good to hear some figures from you. I think by freeing up the exhaust and keeping my IAT low by an intercooler or simply by keeping boost reasonable, I can make up for whatever fuel efficiencies exist from using a supercharger without having to bleed off the boost. But it is an experiment so who knows. I'd like to hear more about your engine and gearing, what kind of supercharger do you have on there?

My build was an experiment as well, I wanted to see if the blower produced more horsepower than the factory turbo - it did, quite a bit more. The engine I used was a Toyota 2.4 litre. First I bolted the S.C.14 charger onto the normally aspirated block (2L) that had just been re-ringed, and was running cheap mineral oil in it to ensure the rings would bed in properly. After about 1700 kays the engine spun a conrod bearing, no. 3, so I cleaned up the crank and replaced the bearings which got me another couple of months out of the engine before the same bearing failed again, after the 3rd fail I decided to rebuild a 2LT engine (factory turbo model) that was sitting in my shed and try it out, the result was no more spun bearings! The no. 3 bearing is usually first to go in the 2L engine type, probably because of the limited oil flow provided to no.s 3 and 4 journals, but I'm sure that there are other contributing factors involved.
Power was huge from 1000 to about 2500, but then levelled out somewhat, the engine really needed some adjustments to make the most of the blower. The 2LT engine gave a slightly different result, having a lower compression ratio and a different precup volume/outlet shape than what the N.A. engine had an effect on the torque curve. This build took place back in 2010, so it might be easier if I link you to the build rather than try to remember all the details- http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189348&highlight=supercharge#189348

The S.C.14 is a noisy blower, and I like my engine to be quite if it's my daily driver, so I run a turbo nowdays, but would run a charger again if I could afford a quiet screw compressor, or if I can work out how to quiten down the inlet noise of the rootes style blower! The newer design magnussen blowers have a cruise bypass valve built into them, so would allow you to run say 2 pounds of boost at cruise and full boost when on the loud pedal, if you can copy this setup then cruise economy should be very close to the turbocharger numbers. I should add that I ran the engine on used cooking oil too, which affects the torque curve a bit. Probably the most important mod is to change the main throttle spring inside the injection pump, more fuel is needed at revs to get good topend power

 

[rembrant88]

Thanks. I'll read up on your build, should be interesting. I had a 1.8 lt whipple but I sold it not knowing I'd have a project come along like this. I should have realized I would need it one day. It definitely would have been better. I really like the potential the Magnuson has for my bronco. If you get a chance go to the link up above and let me know what you think. I wish I could afford another one but buying the 2300 put me out a lot of cash.

 

[rembrant88]

That's an interesting project experience you went through. How is it you were getting 4psi at idle and not much more at higher rpm? It seems like that much boost at idle is unnecessary and inefficient. I'll have to do some reading. I don't know a whole lot about the supercharger you used.