TWeatherford
Full Access Member
Nothing like a bunch of 2x4s and plywood nailed together acting as a spacer between the bed floor and slide in! I've seen it a few times...
slide in camer and towing
- Thread starter Halltrail
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Nothing like a bunch of 2x4s and plywood nailed together acting as a spacer between the bed floor and slide in! I've seen it a few times...
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Four good 235/85-16E tires on your rear axle can safely support a 3000 lbs camper, I know that from experience. The more important question is what wheels are said tires currently mounted on, in other words is your truck a 2wd? 2wd dually wheels are designed with 215/85-16 tires in mind, upgrade them with some nice 235-wide A/T tires and all of sudden the tire sidewalls get a bit too close for comfort. At least this is what I experienced.
The cheap solution would be a pair of spacers between the inner and outer wheels, the studs are long enough to safely accommodate 5/16" thick spacers - the lugnuts will thread on fully and there will even be 1 thread sticking out on the studs. You may be able to clear 3/8" spacers as well, but then if my measurements are correct the studs will be 1 thread too short - some may say this is OK, but I wasn't brave enough to try it. Keep in mind that the moment you slide them spacers on the outer wheels become non-hubcentric and as such are a bear to center properly, heck I think I messed up one of mine last time cause now they're good under 60-65mph but try 75 and the shaking begins... One of these days I gotta try running a pair of '94-up (non-coined) Dodge wheels as outers since they have smaller hub openings (4.77" vs. 4.88") and may just be able to pilot on the tapered part of the Ford hub...
The correct solution to the problem is to install dually wheels designed for 235-wide tires, which would be factory wheels for a dually cab-chassis 4x4 truck - those have more offset/backspacing to them, not much (0.35" per wheel, for total of 0.7" or about 18mm), but enough to ensure that sidewalls won't touch unless you severely overload the axle or underinflate the tires. If you wanna buy new you're looking for Accuride #29578 for the 2500lbs/65psi wheel or #29580 for the 2300lbs/80psi wheel. By the way your current wheels are probably rated at 2200lbs and 65psi.
About the airbags, if your rear springs are still the borderline useless 5-leaf main packs with single-leaf overloads and like 2" of clearance between said overloads and their frame brackets, yeah chances are you could use airbags. If you choose to install them, make sure you don't plumb them together, instead give each bag its own fill/dump valve and air line - bags T-eed together can shift air from side to side and don't do much to control sway, while separated bags not only help w/ sway but also allow you to level out your truck if it's heavier to one side. Also, if you drive lots of washboard roads, giving those air bags some ping tanks (google it) may be a real good idea. FWIW my 350 don't have air bags, but leaf packs ain't stock either - with 3k camper loaded the rear ride height drops by about 2-1/2" and the front by only 1/4" if that, and truck is still a good inch from becoming level. I towed a 1-ton diesel CJ on military 36s w/ four wheels down and both transfer cases in neutral, so no tongue weight, but no electric brakes either - no problems whatsoever, altho I gotta admit having camper and jeep on/behind the 600 (think your truck on steroids) feels quite a bit more comforting than using the 350 as a motivator...
IDIDieselJohn
0-60....eventually
I had an old 77 Shamrock 12ft full size slide in camper in my stock F250.
All I had was some timbren rubber boots (like air bags, but empty).
All I had was some timbren rubber boots (like air bags, but empty).
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Thank you! Great information. Yeah, I may need to look at a spacer for wheels. My truck is a centurion conversion...I dont know if they put that size tire on and what wheel is on there....I guess I should check. Its possible the previous owner put the larger size tires on. Im probably going to order some firestone airbags now. I already order some rancho 9000xl shocks. I have no idea how old the existing ones are...lol.. She was a little bouncy up front with just the trailer and jeep. Interesting about the wheel psi rating. My tires are rated at 2,*** something at 80psi for dual and 3,*** single. I usually run them at 65-70 psi.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Centurion converted it to 4x4, or is just interior and appearance conversion while driveline still remains 2wd? If it's a 4x4 truck then someone, Centurion or someone else, converted it to such likely from a SRW truck, no 4-door dually 4x4 was available from the factory till the newer-style Superduty came out in '99. Pull one pair of rear wheel and check the rear axle hub, the correct way to convert a SRW to dually is to swap entire rear axle, but there also exist those 3" spacers that bolt on to the SRW hubs and have their own studs sticking out and then the wheels bolt to those - some folks here have that setup and it holds up fine for them under heavy use, however I'd be very hesitant to run it the way you plan on due to how it loads mostly the outer hub bearings. Not trying to scare ya here, just watching out for ya - with a truck camper loaded if something is to fail you can't just hitch a ride on a roll-back, ya need a big-truck wrecker with a stinger that can lift your entire rear axle off the ground and tow you front wheels down (or the other way around, but I'm giving you worst-case scenario) and those beast ain't cheap to call for service. So yah, pull wheels, see what you can see on the hub, post pics on here if you're unsure what you're looking at, we'll help ya out best we can.
Your tires have the same weight rating as mine, and are more than up to the task. The wheels thing, I suspect it has to do with how it's shaped (dished out so much) cause a "flat" SRW wheel made to run the same exact size of tires is rated at over 3k - but a SRW wheel has a load plane right through its centerline (if you look at it vertically), while a dually wheels is loaded quite a bit off-center. If it will make you sleep better at night, Dodge and Chevy wheels of that bolt pattern have relatively low weight ratings as well, so it ain't like it's a big issue, I was just pointing out a somewhat-odd fact. If you do feel you need an upgrade tho, and can't find a set of 2500-lbs 4x4 dually truck steel wheels, then factory dually steel wheels for E-series vans (the kind with 8 small round hand holes, instead of the 4 large oblong ones we got on our pickup trucks) may be your ticket, they too can carry 2500lbs but are also rated at 80psi (thus making them the "strongest" factory steel wheel available), and they have a bit more offset which will help with tire spacing - not a huge upgrade and IMHO not worth spending extra cash on it, but something is better than nothing, and if you can find a set for dirt cheap then hey, go for it I guess.
No idea on weight ratings on Alcoa wheel, I get my data from the Accuride catalog, the only aluminum light-duty wheel it shows is a 10-lug one for newer F450 or 550 or something.
Your tires have the same weight rating as mine, and are more than up to the task. The wheels thing, I suspect it has to do with how it's shaped (dished out so much) cause a "flat" SRW wheel made to run the same exact size of tires is rated at over 3k - but a SRW wheel has a load plane right through its centerline (if you look at it vertically), while a dually wheels is loaded quite a bit off-center. If it will make you sleep better at night, Dodge and Chevy wheels of that bolt pattern have relatively low weight ratings as well, so it ain't like it's a big issue, I was just pointing out a somewhat-odd fact. If you do feel you need an upgrade tho, and can't find a set of 2500-lbs 4x4 dually truck steel wheels, then factory dually steel wheels for E-series vans (the kind with 8 small round hand holes, instead of the 4 large oblong ones we got on our pickup trucks) may be your ticket, they too can carry 2500lbs but are also rated at 80psi (thus making them the "strongest" factory steel wheel available), and they have a bit more offset which will help with tire spacing - not a huge upgrade and IMHO not worth spending extra cash on it, but something is better than nothing, and if you can find a set for dirt cheap then hey, go for it I guess.
No idea on weight ratings on Alcoa wheel, I get my data from the Accuride catalog, the only aluminum light-duty wheel it shows is a 10-lug one for newer F450 or 550 or something.
DieselJon, that is a big camper but your truck looks like it was holding it fine. LCAM, Truck is rear wheel drive only. It is not a 4x4. I have had the wheels off a couple of times and there are no hub spacers. Axle code is D5. Should be a sterling 10.25 with 4.10 limited slip. You guys have been a lot of help as always. I ended up buying the Lance 810. I forgot to take pictures while it was on the truck. Here is a pic or two though:
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When I put the camper on the truck she sat down about 2.5 inches or so...it looked level but the overload spring was touching the pad up front and maybe a 1/4" of space on the rear. But the truck did look level still. Airbags should be here tomorrow along with some new shocks. I forgot to check the spacing between the dually wheels. I bet Ill need some 1/4" spacers though. By the way, is it ok for the overload springs to touch the pads? Wont be a problem with the airbags...just curious.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
So your truck is just a normal 2wd dually 4-door, and Centurion only spiffed it up appearance- and amenities-wise. This is good, a factory dually truck is more than able to handle a camper like that Lance. Nice camper by the way, that north-south bed will give you all sorts of storage space and "flow" real nice with your long truck cab. If you plan on going camping in winter, you'll find that with good tires your truck becomes almost unstoppable in snow when camper is in the bed (I took mine to the WI mountains this winter, didn't have much issue keeping up w/ the better half's Jeep-thing).
On the ride height - barely touching the overload is a good and a bad thing, good cause it means you're far from being overloaded, but bad cause when they're barely under load the overloads tend to "kick" more as the suspension cycles. Won't hurt a thing, but may annoy you to death. Since your camper is so light it seems you won't be running much pressure in the air bags, so no ping tanks needed either - less money spend on equipment is more money spend enjoying the outdoors.
On the spacers, go with 5/16 if you can. But load camper back on and check to see what the situation is first, depending on brand and model of tires you may not even need spacers.
A heads-up, since I see your remote sitting on the table - someone on one of the RV sites recently reported that when he went to lift his camper to load on truck the remote only powered up one of the four jacks - he caught it on time and no damage was done to camper or jacks, but just keep an eye out. Also when you store camper off truck, make something for it to sit on, it's way more stable in strong winds if the bottom is resting on something solid and jacks are down only to stabilize it. And finally look into a frame-mounted setup for attaching camper to truck, bed tie downs don't work out too great when you start bounding up and down on the two-tracks.
On the ride height - barely touching the overload is a good and a bad thing, good cause it means you're far from being overloaded, but bad cause when they're barely under load the overloads tend to "kick" more as the suspension cycles. Won't hurt a thing, but may annoy you to death. Since your camper is so light it seems you won't be running much pressure in the air bags, so no ping tanks needed either - less money spend on equipment is more money spend enjoying the outdoors.
On the spacers, go with 5/16 if you can. But load camper back on and check to see what the situation is first, depending on brand and model of tires you may not even need spacers.
A heads-up, since I see your remote sitting on the table - someone on one of the RV sites recently reported that when he went to lift his camper to load on truck the remote only powered up one of the four jacks - he caught it on time and no damage was done to camper or jacks, but just keep an eye out. Also when you store camper off truck, make something for it to sit on, it's way more stable in strong winds if the bottom is resting on something solid and jacks are down only to stabilize it. And finally look into a frame-mounted setup for attaching camper to truck, bed tie downs don't work out too great when you start bounding up and down on the two-tracks.
I pack an 11.5 89 lance with the buggy trailer behind it, usually 16.7 k the way the wife loads the camper. I am at max on the tires srw. but it does fine, get a lighter trailer if possible.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17806&d=1195426241
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17806&d=1195426241
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For one example I have of towing with a slide in camper.
Travis, with the Nanny Goat (95 2500 12V, 5spd, 2wd EC) had and 80's 8.5 foot slide in (Was just long enough to cover the lights on the truck and the camper had tail lights. It also had a 1/2 bath so it had a small black and fresh water tank on it. I think with all the gear and setting on the truck, it was 2000-2500 lbs (may be off weight wise). He had the stock rear suspension and "HT" tires (BFG Commercial Grade) and it would set the truck "level" (had the standard Dodge 2wd rake). I had a torque converter fail in my Durango that I towed my Travel Trailer with. The truck would make it home itself, but not towing. So he towed my Travel Trailer (~5000lb) loaded weight, with brakes, and he did not have any issues towing that load a couple of times.....
Travis, with the Nanny Goat (95 2500 12V, 5spd, 2wd EC) had and 80's 8.5 foot slide in (Was just long enough to cover the lights on the truck and the camper had tail lights. It also had a 1/2 bath so it had a small black and fresh water tank on it. I think with all the gear and setting on the truck, it was 2000-2500 lbs (may be off weight wise). He had the stock rear suspension and "HT" tires (BFG Commercial Grade) and it would set the truck "level" (had the standard Dodge 2wd rake). I had a torque converter fail in my Durango that I towed my Travel Trailer with. The truck would make it home itself, but not towing. So he towed my Travel Trailer (~5000lb) loaded weight, with brakes, and he did not have any issues towing that load a couple of times.....
just
Nice Russ, funny thing is I just bought a new trailer before all this camper thing went down...so Ill be stuck for a little while. If I do another trailer, Im going to get a gooseneck and do what a lot of guys on Pirate4x4 have done and put the truck camper on the trailer and have room on the trailer in the back for the jeep.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
saw your posts on RV.net, figured you could use another opinion:
1) nice front tie-downs, very similar to what I got, personally I'd have flipped the C-channel around but whatever, it will be more than fine as is.
2) when you go to grind on your air bag brackets to fit them between your overload and the main pack, don't just grind them till they're thin enough to freely slide in place - instead measure the thickness of the factory spacer block on both its front and back end (IIRC it's tapered) and grind your brackets down only till they are the exact same thickness as the block. They may then need a slight persuasion to slide in place (tap them in w/ a piece of flat stock and a small hammer), that is OK - the idea is for the force created by the air bags to be transmitted into the main leaf pack as much as possible, if your brackets are thinner than the space between the overload and the main pack then it will be the overload carrying most of the air bag downforce and this is not a very good idea at all. Also use only grade 8 hardware throughout (if hardware supplied w/ airbags is grade 5 or less toss it out), and use the largest diameter that will fit inside the holes in the brackets - if a 7/16" bolt fits don't settle for 3/8" even if that is what the airbag factory gave you.
3) IMHO Sable Loads are a waste of money on an older truck - instead I'd suggest acquiring a pair of factory lift blocks for a 4x4 F250 truck, losing your current 1" spacer blocks between the factory overloads and the main packs, and using the F250 lift blocks instead. You will obviously need to remove the U-bolts for this, but this is actually a good thing, chances are you could use some fresh Grade-8 oversized U-bolts, and it's perfect opportunity to check your main leaf packs for cracked leaves. This 1" raise of the overload position w/ respect to the main packs will achieve the same effect of making it start working earlier as you load up truck as Stable Loads would, only you won't have them cheesy and overpriced (for what they are) suspension bandaids.
4) invest in a rubber bed mat, they are godsend for keeping campers from sliding around. Of course w/your fab skils you can easily make camper locator brackets that will center the camper in the bed for ya quick and easy every time - I got them in the front only, I let my inner fenders center the rear of the camper, but I really ought to redo that setup and run both front and rear brackets... Look in the RVN "university" sub-forum for ideas and examples for those.
1) nice front tie-downs, very similar to what I got, personally I'd have flipped the C-channel around but whatever, it will be more than fine as is.
2) when you go to grind on your air bag brackets to fit them between your overload and the main pack, don't just grind them till they're thin enough to freely slide in place - instead measure the thickness of the factory spacer block on both its front and back end (IIRC it's tapered) and grind your brackets down only till they are the exact same thickness as the block. They may then need a slight persuasion to slide in place (tap them in w/ a piece of flat stock and a small hammer), that is OK - the idea is for the force created by the air bags to be transmitted into the main leaf pack as much as possible, if your brackets are thinner than the space between the overload and the main pack then it will be the overload carrying most of the air bag downforce and this is not a very good idea at all. Also use only grade 8 hardware throughout (if hardware supplied w/ airbags is grade 5 or less toss it out), and use the largest diameter that will fit inside the holes in the brackets - if a 7/16" bolt fits don't settle for 3/8" even if that is what the airbag factory gave you.
3) IMHO Sable Loads are a waste of money on an older truck - instead I'd suggest acquiring a pair of factory lift blocks for a 4x4 F250 truck, losing your current 1" spacer blocks between the factory overloads and the main packs, and using the F250 lift blocks instead. You will obviously need to remove the U-bolts for this, but this is actually a good thing, chances are you could use some fresh Grade-8 oversized U-bolts, and it's perfect opportunity to check your main leaf packs for cracked leaves. This 1" raise of the overload position w/ respect to the main packs will achieve the same effect of making it start working earlier as you load up truck as Stable Loads would, only you won't have them cheesy and overpriced (for what they are) suspension bandaids.
4) invest in a rubber bed mat, they are godsend for keeping campers from sliding around. Of course w/your fab skils you can easily make camper locator brackets that will center the camper in the bed for ya quick and easy every time - I got them in the front only, I let my inner fenders center the rear of the camper, but I really ought to redo that setup and run both front and rear brackets... Look in the RVN "university" sub-forum for ideas and examples for those.
freebird01
Post Turtle!
i may know where you can aquire a pair of F250 4x4 blocks....
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