Rivet,Rivet

[pontoonrob]

Hello everyone, while removing all turbocharger parts from my truck this weekend I noticed a large rivet that's holds the crossmember, front frame piece and long frame was poking out of its hole. I used a bottle jack and pushed it tight up into its hole. However this cant be good. So want I want to know is,can I grind off the head of the rivet and push thru the stem and then bolt frame members back together with a grade 8 bolt. I was gonna just weld everything together but welder guy says these pieces need to move a little and the weld would not hold. will anything move once the rivet is out?---Rob

 

[mblaney]

I don't think a riveted joint is intended to move a little. The whole point of the rivet is to expand in the holes when hammered causing a permanent joint. I would replace with bolts. I would get fine thread bolts (UNF) and locking nuts (the kind with a oblong shape or a dent in one side that causes an interference fit). I would not over torque it either. Select your bolt size and then find a torque spec for it.

I did a quick google for "chassis bolts" and found this for your reference. http://catalog.sandstruck.com/viewi...s-and-locknuts-for-truck-chassis-applications

I would remove the rivet and install the next size up bolt to make sure there is no slop in the joint. I would clamp the joint then drill it out; If the rivet is 9/16, put a 5/8 bolt in it. I would want the bolt to fit with as little slop as possible. I would use grade 8 and use a bolt length such that the shoulder passes through both chassis parts. Respect the installation torque! Over tightening will cause a weaker joint.

 

[Knuckledragger]

I had to replace a frame bracket after a wreck, the holes are pretty close tolerance. I used 7/16 bolts (fine thread). Trying to drill out the holes might cause more grief than you need.

 

[junk]

I've just replaced rivets with #8 bolts. I personally would be Ok using a 7/16" bolt or drilling out to 1/2". I've thought these frames drill pretty easy.

 

[typ4]

Well your welder guy has never seen the ford bulletin that says to weld all the frame to crossmember joints you can reach.
My buddy worked at Carmenita ford when these were a problem.
We did my truck and all the popping on turns went away and in over 100k the welds have never cracked,
and as said the rivets do not allow movement, they are swaged in there, and obviosly that doesnt work well enough

 

[riotwarrior]

Well your welder guy has never seen the ford bulletin that says to weld all the frame to crossmember joints you can reach.
My buddy worked at Carmenita ford when these were a problem.
We did my truck and all the popping on turns went away and in over 100k the welds have never cracked,
and as said the rivets do not allow movement, they are swaged in there, and obviosly that doesnt work well enough

Where can one find this said bulletin Russ?

 

[mblaney]

Stolen from the internet.. might not be exactly the rivet you are having issues with but a good instruction anyway.

Frame Rivet TSB 97-4-7 for 80-96; Damaged or loose frame rivets should be replaced with approved service bolts. WELDING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE
If service is required, replace standard rivets with approved service bolts. Refer to the following Service Procedure for details.

NOTE: THE "HUCK" RIVET BETWEEN THE #1 CROSSMEMBER AND THE LH FRAME RAIL SHOULD BE SERVICED PER TSB 91-25-18. THIS PROCEDURE DOES NOT APPLY.

SERVICE PROCEDURE
Inspect for a loose or damaged rivet.
Remove any damaged or loose rivets.
Drill a 3.175mm (1/8") hole through the rivet.
Redrill the same hole through the shank of the rivet.
Use an 8.731mm (11/32") drill for 3/8" and 10mm rivets.
Use a 9.525mm (3/8") drill for 11.113mm (7/16") rivets.
Remove the rivet head with an air chisel.
Drive out the rivet with a punch and hammer.
Line ream the hole to the replacement bolt nominal size with a hole tolerance of 0.127mm (0.005").
Free hole of burrs after reaming to allow bolt head and nut to seat properly.
Select the bolt length to have a minimum of two (2) threads protruding from outer face of nut. Refer to the Bolt Selection Chart for correct parts usage.

NOTE: IF A FLANGE HEAD NUT AND BOLT ARE NOT AVAILABLE, GRADE 5 HEX HEADS MAY BE SUBSTITUTED WITH ONE (1) FLATWASHER REQUIRED UNDER THE NUT AND ONE (1) FLATWASHER REQUIRED UNDER THE BOLT HEAD.
NOTE: GRADE 8 BOLTS MAY BE SUBSTITUTED FOR ANY APPLICATION.

Check to be sure there is a 12.7mm (1/2") minimum clearance of bolt to adjacent components, except engine and transmission, which must have at least 19.05mm (3/4") clearance to allow for powertrain roll.

Tighten the bolts to the specifications shown in the Bolt Selection Chart.
GRADE 8 BOLTS MAY BE SUBSTITUTED FOR (7/16″) rivets. ANY APPLICATION. (http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/tsb/tsb/files/970407.pdf)


Frame Service; Drilling Precautions, Straightening, Reinforcing, Member Replacement, etc. from Bronco/F-Series Workshop Manual
"... "in cases where it is necessary to remove rivets, replace them with Property Class 9.8 metric (Grade 8) nuts, bolts and washers of the next larger size (i.e., for 3/8-inch diameter rivets use 7/16-inch bolts, for 7/16-inch diameter rivets use 1/2-inch bolts). This requires line drilling of the holes to the same diameter as the new bolt (i.e., either 0.437 diameter or 0.500 diameter).

a damaged frame member is to be replaced, new bolts, Property Class 9.8 metric (Grade 8) fasteners and rivets required for replacement of parts should be of the same specifications as the original bolts or rivets. In cases where it is necessary to substitute a bolt for a rivet, use the next larger size bolt. "

 

[mblaney]

****! I guess my original suggestion was petty close. I found a pdf of the actual TSB.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[typ4]

Where can one find this said bulletin Russ?

I wish I knew, I can check with him and see, it may have been a non public bulletin.

 

[pontoonrob]

Stolen from the internet.. might not be exactly the rivet you are having issues with but a good instruction anyway.

Frame Rivet TSB 97-4-7 for 80-96; Damaged or loose frame rivets should be replaced with approved service bolts. WELDING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE
If service is required, replace standard rivets with approved service bolts. Refer to the following Service Procedure for details.

NOTE: THE "HUCK" RIVET BETWEEN THE #1 CROSSMEMBER AND THE LH FRAME RAIL SHOULD BE SERVICED PER TSB 91-25-18. THIS PROCEDURE DOES NOT APPLY.

SERVICE PROCEDURE
Inspect for a loose or damaged rivet.
Remove any damaged or loose rivets.
Drill a 3.175mm (1/8") hole through the rivet.
Redrill the same hole through the shank of the rivet.
Use an 8.731mm (11/32") drill for 3/8" and 10mm rivets.
Use a 9.525mm (3/8") drill for 11.113mm (7/16") rivets.
Remove the rivet head with an air chisel.
Drive out the rivet with a punch and hammer.
Line ream the hole to the replacement bolt nominal size with a hole tolerance of 0.127mm (0.005").
Free hole of burrs after reaming to allow bolt head and nut to seat properly.
Select the bolt length to have a minimum of two (2) threads protruding from outer face of nut. Refer to the Bolt Selection Chart for correct parts usage.

NOTE: IF A FLANGE HEAD NUT AND BOLT ARE NOT AVAILABLE, GRADE 5 HEX HEADS MAY BE SUBSTITUTED WITH ONE (1) FLATWASHER REQUIRED UNDER THE NUT AND ONE (1) FLATWASHER REQUIRED UNDER THE BOLT HEAD.
NOTE: GRADE 8 BOLTS MAY BE SUBSTITUTED FOR ANY APPLICATION.

Check to be sure there is a 12.7mm (1/2") minimum clearance of bolt to adjacent components, except engine and transmission, which must have at least 19.05mm (3/4") clearance to allow for powertrain roll.

Tighten the bolts to the specifications shown in the Bolt Selection Chart.
GRADE 8 BOLTS MAY BE SUBSTITUTED FOR (7/16″) rivets. ANY APPLICATION. (http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/tsb/tsb/files/970407.pdf)


Frame Service; Drilling Precautions, Straightening, Reinforcing, Member Replacement, etc. from Bronco/F-Series Workshop Manual
"... "in cases where it is necessary to remove rivets, replace them with Property Class 9.8 metric (Grade 8) nuts, bolts and washers of the next larger size (i.e., for 3/8-inch diameter rivets use 7/16-inch bolts, for 7/16-inch diameter rivets use 1/2-inch bolts). This requires line drilling of the holes to the same diameter as the new bolt (i.e., either 0.437 diameter or 0.500 diameter).

a damaged frame member is to be replaced, new bolts, Property Class 9.8 metric (Grade 8) fasteners and rivets required for replacement of parts should be of the same specifications as the original bolts or rivets. In cases where it is necessary to substitute a bolt for a rivet, use the next larger size bolt. "

well that's some great info,thanks..Took a new grade 8 bolt to my muffler guy,10 minutes,ten dollars and all is good again.---Rob