Original OE Starter Woes... getting tired

[HammerDown]

Well, even with two NEW batteries my OE 1988 starter is seriously slowing down (but only with COLD temps on a COLD engine) ... cranks just fine with hot/warm engine but, when dead-cold-winter temps she spins then sloooows down (it's painful to hear)

So... I'm reading about this "Powermaster Performance 9050 Ultra Duty Diesel Starter." (now $250.00)
#1 I'm reading for a pesky bolt I'll need a "wobble extension" or, is it a shortie wobble socket and what size?
#2 for certain will my OE battery cables make the reach or... is that something else I'll have to deal with (longer cable/s)
#3 or, what about a connection for another quality OE type replacement starter... and save $$$
#4 why do bad things always happen when it's freezing, snowing, raining or sweltering hot?

 

[Cubey]

Have you tried plugging in the block heater? It will warm up the engine oil some, making it less like molasses. It'll also help fire up better than just the glow plugs.

I've used the block heater to start a cold engine pretty easily in 60-70 degrees before without glow plugs working at all, due to the 6.9 style controller suddenly dying on the RV. I was waiting on a momentary switch to come in the mail and had to drive it.

 

[IDIBOBS]

after being a mechanic building older trucks for over 30 years I’ve learned something. Go to a local parts store and get a stock starter with a lifetime warranty. I’ve never had a starter last less than 5 years, I can get a new one for free any where in the country 7 days a week. Same with every thing, brake pads, alternators, water pumps steering ect…. Just buy a life time warranted part and never pay for anytning ever again. I’ve had a 1997 truck since new. Every few years a take my pads back and get new, when the alternator goes out I get new. I’ve never paid twice for anything. If a stock parts store starter isn’t working you have other problems. Batteries, cables, grounds, other connections. I’ve never needed the block heater above 0deg f. And even then only if it sits for a few days.

 

[ihc1470]

You will have to do something different at the starter for the battery cable as the terminal is in a different location. The bolt is not that big of a deal. A wobble extension will get it out. #4 Heard of Murphy?

 

[MtnHaul]

You might be OK on battery cables as I have run both Mitsubishi style and Denso style without issue. Currently I have a newer Powermaster 9050 with new batteries and it cranks real fast. My starter was behaving like yours--slow when cold, fine when warm and it turned out to be my batteries but I replaced the old starter anyway just for reliability.

 

[HammerDown]

You might be OK on battery cables as I have run both Mitsubishi style and Denso style without issue. Currently I have a newer Powermaster 9050 with new batteries and it cranks real fast. My starter was behaving like yours--slow when cold, fine when warm and it turned out to be my batteries but I replaced the old starter anyway just for reliability.

My two batteries are new... so did your stock wires make the reach to the power master 9050 or did you have to get longer cables?

 

[HammerDown]

after being a mechanic building older trucks for over 30 years I’ve learned something. Go to a local parts store and get a stock starter with a lifetime warranty. I’ve never had a starter last less than 5 years, I can get a new one for free any where in the country 7 days a week. Same with every thing, brake pads, alternators, water pumps steering ect…. Just buy a life time warranted part and never pay for anytning ever again. I’ve had a 1997 truck since new. Every few years a take my pads back and get new, when the alternator goes out I get new. I’ve never paid twice for anything. If a stock parts store starter isn’t working you have other problems. Batteries, cables, grounds, other connections. I’ve never needed the block heater above 0deg f. And even then only if it sits for a few days.

Remember Pep Boys?
Well... I use to play that game with them however, since they stopped selling parts my water pump, altinator, pwr steering pump, shocks, window motors, calipers, radiator, brake pads and shoes and on and on no longer have that lifetime warranty.
About the ONLY original part on my truck is the starter motor.

 

[HammerDown]

Have you tried plugging in the block heater? It will warm up the engine oil some, making it less like molasses. It'll also help fire up better than just the glow plugs.

I've used the block heater to start a cold engine pretty easily in 60-70 degrees before without glow plugs working at all, due to the 6.9 style controller suddenly dying on the RV. I was waiting on a momentary switch to come in the mail and had to drive it.

Oh yes, I have used the block heater during single digit temps... HOWEVER... last time I used it, coolant leaked from the heaters O-ring.
Sooooo, when the starter is out that's when the block heater will also be replaced.

 

[BeastMaster]

I can't help but wonder if they have started using Copper-Clad Aluminum ( CCA) wire in modern starter motors.

I have a couple of washing machines whose motors are wound with CCA.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

so did your stock wires make the reach to the power master 9050 or did you have to get longer cables?

Yes your factory cables will reach. I didn't have to do any modifying to put a Powermaster starter on my truck.

 

[MtnHaul]

My two batteries are new... so did your stock wires make the reach to the power master 9050 or did you have to get longer cables?

Well if your batteries are new and your cables are in good shape then I guess it likely is the starter. With stock cables I was able to connect to a Mitsubishi style, https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/RAY2446265 and the Denso style which is like the powermaster, https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/RAY2440208 . I currently have custom cables I made myself but I made them before installing the 9050 Powermaster. No idea if my original cables were altered by a PO or if the '92 stock cables are different from your stock cables but they connected to either style just fine--maybe something is different about the 9050 that I am unaware of. I ended up doing the custom cables because the originals were in pretty bad shape after about 25 years.

And that top bolt can be a pain to catch a thread with and get going but not that bad.

 

[KansasIDI]

Well if your batteries are new and your cables are in good shape then I guess it likely is the starter. With stock cables I was able to connect to a Mitsubishi style, https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/RAY2446265 and the Denso style which is like the powermaster, https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/RAY2440208 . I currently have custom cables I made myself but I made them before installing the 9050 Powermaster. No idea if my original cables were altered by a PO or if the '92 stock cables are different from your stock cables but they connected to either style just fine--maybe something is different about the 9050 that I am unaware of. I ended up doing the custom cables because the originals were in pretty bad shape after about 25 years.

And that top bolt can be a pain to catch a thread with and get going but not that bad.

ididiesel.com cables are super nice. Overpriced, but they’re high quality and very large. Combined with new Motorcraft glow plugs, new Powermaster starter, and new batteries, I achieved instant starts in the cold. Worth it IMO

 

[aggiediesel01]

If you can afford to have the truck down for a day or so I always suggest finding a local rebuild shop. They’ll use quality bearings/bushings and brushes. Most of the time the price is less than half a new one and you’ll maintain the OE armature and field windings which is where the most cost is in an electric motor. If you have time for a weeks worth of shipping give a call to the alternator shop down in Bryan,Tx and ask if they have any of their special build starters they had made for these trucks. The details about the starter are in the link below but it’s called a 34MT and a few years ago it used to be only about $110+shipping. It produces more power than the powermaster and the ones we’ve bought haven’t been replaced yet.

Post in thread 'Starter upgrade?'
https://www.oilburners.net/threads/starter-upgrade.87120/post-1047195

Shop is BCS Alternator & Starter Services (979)775-9470 pretty sure they don’t have a website.

 

[MadMac]

Go to a local parts store and get a stock starter with a lifetime warranty.

@HammerDown - @IDIBOBS is right... nothing wrong with the stock part - just make certain you are getting the right part - I've been given a gasser starter instead... and you get this "slow spin" effect as a result. The stock part is more than enough to do this job - but make certain to get the right part number. The starter for the 6.9 is very different from a standard ford starter for a gasser motor.

Get *both part numbers* - so you know for certain you have the part specific to the 6.9 Diesel. There will absolutely be a difference in price, and likely for the core charge too. The same goes for the online part search - which is where I would start. I know this - b/c it happened to me... Unfortunately, my Ford Parts book is buried in a box in the attick (just where it belongs...) or I'd go fish them out for you.

Second - starting problems are not just batteries and the starter. Test to make certain the cables can keep the voltage up in the cold. I had this problem too, when I replaced the cables with a custom set - is when I found out how quickly a stock HD starter can burn up... which leads to the GP bypass... which leads to... which leads to...

Best - let us know how it turns out.

 

[DaveBen]

Whatever starter you choose must be able to spin the engine at minimum 500 rpms or it won't start. The engine cpu will not let fuel flow below 500 rpms - no start. A stock starter with clean wire connections/grounds is good. There are several items that cause no start; glow plugs, starter, starting solenoid, wiring and of course the starter. Good luck!