Starter solenoid(s)

[Brian VT]

Good morning.
My truck wouldn't start. Solid click when turning the key. Had AAA come out and the batteries tested good so he left.
Read on here about jumping the solenoid on the fender. It started.
I bought a new solenoid. It looked different but I figured it would still work so I installed it. It didn't work so I put the old one on and planned to jump it again to get the truck home. It no longer worked. I left the truck there which is 1 hour away.
I need to go back to fix it and am wondering what might have happened so I can, hopefully, bring everything I might need.
I should note that I neglected to disconnect the 2nd battery and did get some spark when messing with the solenoid.
I'll bring a new (more correct) solenoid. Do you think I may have also fried the solenoid on the starter? Or even fried the starter? Is the solenoid on the starter replaceable with the starter on the truck? Is there a fuse or fusible link I may have fried?
Any advice that will help me get this done in one trip would be appreciated.

 

[Nero]

Doubt you fried anything. I've done the same thing too, usually you get a mild light show, but then things still work.

Do you have a tilt column? The linkage in the column may have finally broke.

This is the only link I could find quickly that describes it.

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[Brian VT]

Thanks.
I was able to start it and drive it by jumping the original solenoid posts.
I want to do that again and get the truck home but now it won't do that.

 

[tradergem]

Are you sure you are getting power from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid? I had a similar problem with my truck and it turned out the upper half of the ignition switch that is mounted down on the steering column was starting to separate from the bottom half allowing the contacts inside to come apart which of course meant no power to the starter solenoid.

 

[Brian VT]

Like I said, I was able to start and drive it before messing with the solenoid so I assume the ignition switch is ok.

 

[Jesus Freak]

I'm not trying to sound "simpleton", but by chance when you tried to jump the solinoid the second time did you have the key switch in the "on" position? If the truck didn't spin over at all, like a dead battery situation, I'd guess you got a wire in the wrong place. OR since you jumped it the first time instead of using the key, your key didn't return to the correct spot while running and you discharged your batteries while driving around listening to the radio and such (the 79 Lincoln I used to have would do that if you weren't mindful of putting the key in the right spot after cranking itup). It's something simple, if it was in my yard I could figure it out.

 

[Brian VT]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards not having a good ground when I put it back in or maybe I did manage to get a wire wrong (less likely).
I was mostly wondering if I could have smoked something else that I should bring with me just in case.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I'll agree with Nero and say that you probably didn't fry anything. If you think that you may not have a good enough ground, which is possible, then you can always run a jumper ground wire from one of the solenoid mounting screws straight to the negative post on your closest battery. That way you know that you have a good ground. No you can't replace the solenoid on the starter with it installed on the engine.

 

[Brian VT]

There is already a ground strap to one of the mounting bolts.
Maybe the old wires didn't like the jostling around and I lost continuity in there somewhere.
I guess I'll just go down with a new solenoid and hope for the best. If no go then have it towed home 50 mi.
Thanks for all of the input !

 

[Old Goat]

If ya had a stick, then you could rope start it.
IE, tow and pop the Clutch.

Goat

 

[Brian VT]

No clutch. C6. :-(
So I went down there after work and endured the mosquitos and disconnected both batteries and installed a new proper solenoid on the fender.
Still nothing when I jump it. Took it off and sanded the fender where the mounting bolt holds the ground strap and reinstalled.
Still nothing.
I have 12v at the large post that has 5 wires going to it. And 12v at the small S post that the small wire connects to (that suggests that the ground is good?).
Nothing at the other large post with the 1 wire on it (as it should be unless trying to start) even when I turn the key to Start.
And jumping between the large posts doesn't even get a click. So maybe I have another bad solenoid?
Or maybe I need to replace the starter and it's solenoid? My brain thinks that the starter and it's solenoid should be ignored until I have the upper solenoid clicking and sending juice down to the starter and it's solenoid. Even if it's only with jumping it's posts. But I'm not good with electrical.
What would you do?
FYI, the starter looks pretty rough and may be original. So I will probably replace it anyway.
But I'm bothered that I was able to start it by jumping the upper solenoid before I decided that it was the problem and started messing with it and now I'm dead in the water.

 

[chillman88]

Jumping the big posts will not make it click. You're completely bypassing the solenoid that way.

Shouldn't have any voltage at the small terminal unless the key is trying to crank. The small post is the "signal" for the relay. if you want to try to get the solenoid to click unhook the small wire and jump power from the battery (or the hot terminal) to the small stud.

Does your relay have two small studs or just one?

Are you able to post a picture of what you have?

 

[Brian VT]

Jumping the big posts will not make it click. You're completely bypassing the solenoid that way.

That was my thinking. So why did it work to turn the starter before I replaced it and now it won't do that?

Shouldn't have any voltage at the small terminal unless the key is trying to crank. The small post is the "signal" for the relay. if you want to try to get the solenoid to click unhook the small wire and jump power from the battery (or the hot terminal) to the small stud.

Does your relay have two small studs or just one?

Are you able to post a picture of what you have?

It looks identical to the one I removed (picture attached). Two small studs (S and I).
I'm pretty sure my test light lit from the S small stud that I pulled the booted wire off of. (kinda fuzzy cuz I was getting mauled by mosquitos and close to bailing out and driving back home).

 

[IDIBRONCO]

So why did it work to turn the starter before I replaced it and now it won't do that?

Here's my take. Jumping the solenoid by connecting the two large studs is basically hooking the battery positive straight to the starter. If doing that doesn't make the starter act like it's at least trying to start (as in by making a noise of any type), then the problem isn't in the fender mounted solenoid. It's in the battery cable that foes from the fender mounted solenoid to the starter, in a connection (probably at the starter since you've just replaced the solenoid and the cable is tight there), or it's the starter itself. Electrical things can work one time and not work the next time. When the 10 year old parts store reman starter went out on my Blue Truck, it didn't want to start one Friday evening, then it started fine for the rest of the weekend, and on Monday, after work, it wouldn't try to start at all, ever again. The next places that you should look would be in the places that I mentioned, battery cable, connections, and starter. While you're checking the battery cable connections, it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least check to see if your ground cable connections on the block are tight. That's just extra peace of mind.

 

[Brian VT]

Thanks again to all of you. Great advice, as always.
Since the starter looks like hell anyway, I think I'll switch over to working from the starter up.
I just ordered a Powermaster Ultra Duty Diesel (gear reduction) Starter #9050. Sounds like it's a nice upgrade.
I'm not looking forward to messing with the dreaded 3rd bolt that I've read about. :-(