Methinks I have a dead DPS injector

[reklund]

I paid $32.80 for each injector, and with tax I was out the door for a tick over $280 for the set. They wouldn't let me pay them for their time to look at the faulty DPS junk I took over there- which was above and beyond if you ask me.

I don't know if the local guys do much mailorder/phone order sales, but they've treated me right so far. If you call the Albuquerque store, ask for Martin- he's the one who has been so helpful to me. If you're going to do the injectors, you might do the pump as well. Martin told me today that the advance curve is what really wears on those pumps, especially at higher altitudes (like here in Albuquerque), and causes them to slowly drop off in performance.


I've come to realize that if there was a good reliable way to make more power with these old trucks fuel systems, there would be more people doing it. That fuel injection pump was on TONS of vehicles for many years, so I'm pretty sure somebody would've figured out how to hotrod it years ago if it was easy. Same goes for the injectors...

Ryan

The new Delphi injectors idle so smooth I hardly believe it's a diesel...

 

[Diesel JD]

Hmmm... I remember awhile back that someone on here got angry with DPS because he had bought some of their stuff and just like yours the injector failed the pop and spray pattern test. It would be interesting to see if all the Stage 1 injectors perform poorly on the stand like that and if it does anything to hurt the motor. I thought we had determined that the way he got extra fuel delivery out of the inj. was to lower, instead of raise the pop pressure. I just talked with Ken today and I told him I had become aware that you were having problems with his stuff and he said he needed to give you a callback. There are a few trucks here running the DPS fuel system. It will be interesting to see if they last like they should and if so do they cause any damage. Sounds like maybe the stage 1s aren't such a good idea. I hope he'll make it right by you, keep us posted,
J.D.

 

[reklund]

Well, at least he knows I'm out here and having trouble. It ****** me straight off that he can't take 5 minutes and give me a call though.

The biggest trouble with ANY custom parts, be it Kens or otherwise, is if you have a breakdown, you can't just put an off-the-shelf part back on to make it run right. The issue I had necessitated my truck running TODAY. Not whenever somebody feels like calling you back to help with your situation.

Ryan

 

[Diesel JD]

Yes, that is a real downside for a daily driver. I still don't know what to make of DPS and their stuff. It looks like Ken did good work on my turbo, and obviously he has a lot of satisfied customers. On the other hand, this isn't the first time someone has had trouble with his stuff. If you have a chance, do a search for stage 1s or a username search for Black Dawg. It will keep you busy for about 1/2 hour. Sounds a lot like your situation. It seems if the DPS stuff was just a scam, someone here would have called BS already. The thing that remains to be seen is what do they do to longevity. Obviously a spray pattern like that is not what the engine was designed for. People do seem to be very happy with the pumps though...maybe the thing to do is "G" injectors and a DPS pump? Maybe the stage 1s are just different and don't hurt anything.... D I want to be a guinea pig..... I'm not sure yet.

 

[yARIC008]

Yeah, i don't know what to make of Ken either. If he's that busy why doesn't he find a secretary to manage his affairs? That would probably be the part i would hate the most dealing with him, him not getting back to me. The part not being as good as it should would come second. At least then he could fix it or refund your money....

reklund, let us know how that injectors keep working. When i got all new injectors they were smooth as can be too, then on day i just started noticing the engine would shake at idle. I think the mechanical injectors just eventually start to wear and get different pop pressures and spray patters and the like. See if i can "objectively" tell how long they stay nice and smooth. When you ride in it every day it might be hard to tell it's getting worse because it happens so slow.

 

[rumley3060e]

Here's one for ya. I've been running the stage 1's for just under 2 years now. Mine also has a rough idle, but does run on all eight. I got more smoke, but I didn't notice a power increase, blamed it on a pump with 110,000 miles on it. Ordered a turbo cal. pump, installed the electric fuel pump, and wow what a difference. It was like going from day to night. Idled smooth, started good, that was about it. No power, low boost, low egt's, NO SMOKE at all, fuel screw maxed. ?????? Couldn't get a hold of Ken at all. Reinstalled my old pump, and the truck was its old self again. Finally made contact, ok, ok, send it back I'll fix it. Got it back a week later, deja vu. ***? Same routine, except this time I drove to his shop, hand delivered and let him drive my truck with my pump. He commented on how good it ran, but guaranteed me I'd be changing my clutch with his pump, because it had a leaky valley pan and the disk got a little slimey, so it would slip sometimes. Well I'm almost certain the pump I got two months later in November was the clutch preservation model because it was worse this time. A month later I finally got a return call but I was in a meeting and had to miss it. Have never been able to reach him since. This was in December of 2005. In a fit of rage I tossed my high performance injection pump in a box in the corner of the shop where it remains to this day. Been keeping quiet 'cause I didn't want to be the first.

 

[Agnem]

Ken seems to have peaks and valleys of sucess. I'm not going to stand up for him - he should come in and do that himself. As for the injectors though, I will tell you what I know from conversations and observations. First, remember that he did R&D this stuff. He pulls with one of his trucks, so the mods he came up with are legit. That said, on the injectors, when I got my set I tested them. I was afraid to put them in! Compared to factory injectors, they spray horribly. That's because the pintle is actually missing, not just ground down. At least that's what I was told. To get the injector to flow more, the pintle had to go as it was too restrictive. About the only thing you can test for is pop presure. When PAFixitman had his adventure last summer, I came over and tested his DPS injectors, and we did find a leaker. That's not a surprise, as any injector, factory or otherwise, doesn't seem to work as good in the tester as it works in the engine. I suspect the lack of heat may be a factor. Ken's main issue with his mods seems to be quality control. Reasons of which I'm not sure, but I would think that if he would communcate with reliability, that all other points could be forgiven.

 

[Double-S-Diesel]

some hot rodded modded stuff only belongs in pulling trucks,drag racer etc not daily drivers.
goin 300, or 1420 feet at a time then rebuilding is a whole lot different than goin 100k.

Dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with modifications or hi performance stuff, hell Ive dome a ton of mods to my trucks, including the fuel system I just built.
I dont like one of a kind parts , what happens when your 200 miles from home at 2 am and that part fails.

 

[dsblack]

Not to defend the lack of response, which seems to be his biggest issue, My stage1 injectors and pump make a huge differance. The injectors alone did not do much until the pump went on. The power is way differant when pulling. Had some idle issues that were resolved with timing adjustments by a local shop. And it ended up not at 9 like Ken suggested, but closer to 10 or 12, I would have to dig out the paperwork.
I do not know how all the stuff works, but after 2 trucks (6.9, 7.3) this is by far the best pulling set up I have had, and I have 40K on it since the install.

But the best upgrade was that baumann stuff for the trans!

 

[reklund]

some hot rodded modded stuff only belongs in pulling trucks,drag racer etc not daily drivers.
goin 300, or 1420 feet at a time then rebuilding is a whole lot different than goin 100k.

Dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with modifications or hi performance stuff, hell Ive dome a ton of mods to my trucks, including the fuel system I just built.
I dont like one of a kind parts , what happens when your 200 miles from home at 2 am and that part fails.

I generally agree with this statement, but these parts were advertised to me as perfect for a DD with a load behind it 2-3x a month. I know that custom parts = custom problems, and was willing to take that chance. The problem I have is the absolute lack of support when the problems arose.

Either way, the truck runs well now, and I still have the DPS IP installed. It seems to run with as much power as it did with the stage 1 injectors installed, but idles smooth and doesn't smoke quite so much.

I've also still got the DPS injectors, and if they get fixed and flow matched, I could always re-install 'em.

Thanks everyone for the kind words and support on the matter- I'm just glad to have my truck running right again!

Ryan

 

[Double-S-Diesel]

Lack of support sucks,
that is why I chose wholesalers that I deal with carefully, and have some I no longer deal with

 

[Exekiel69]

The problem with this thread is that Ken does not have the possibility to come and debate bc if He does there will be too many angry guys (with their own reasons) and I don't think that is the way to handle this anyway. Still it is good You advice against it so others wont have the same problem. Bottom line is, if You don't want to wait long then go ahead and buy them some place else. I talked to Ken a few times and He really is helpful, and good to talk to. I think He is overwhelmed with all the demand and that is when the quality drops a notch. I would not like to wait 3-5 months for some injectors and IP either to have them fail when I install them so I buy them some place else. Maybe He'll get a hint and either improve both service and quality or grab a little less so He can concentrate better on one thing.

 

[tuckerd1]

My comments since I have both the IP and injectors from Ken. The first IP I got from Ken had a flow problem on #7 cyl (huge fuel knock). I checked this by moving inj around and still could not resolve the huge fuel knock on #7. Sent IP and inj back to Ken and after a very long time (~2mos??) I got them back, installed and everthing ran great.

Ken has a time issue he needs to resolve. Would I buy from him again? Not at this time. Things could change, but that is up to Ken.

 

[sle2115]

The problem with this thread is that Ken does not have the possibility to come and debate bc if He does there will be too many angry guys (with their own reasons) and I don't think that is the way to handle this anyway. Still it is good You advice against it so others wont have the same problem. Bottom line is, if You don't want to wait long then go ahead and buy them some place else. I talked to Ken a few times and He really is helpful, and good to talk to. I think He is overwhelmed with all the demand and that is when the quality drops a notch. I would not like to wait 3-5 months for some injectors and IP either to have them fail when I install them so I buy them some place else. Maybe He'll get a hint and either improve both service and quality or grab a little less so He can concentrate better on one thing.

I am not sure that agree with that. I am not angry, but would like to know his opinion as well. I sold parts for years, you occasionally get a bad part. I sold hi-performance parts as well, same goes. To me, how you handle the bad ones is what makes or breaks you, not how you sell the good ones. With all the reports of both good and bad, I think it would be a pretty even debate.

Even to this day, when I run into one of my old customers and we talk shop (I haven't sold parts for about 10 years) it always comes back to one thing that they liked about me - I didn't run from my mistakes or parts problems. If I forgot to order something, I would admit it. I didn't not answer the phone or not call someone back. In the end, I gained many customers from my willingness to admit I was wrong or to take care of any problems my customers had. I insisted that my employees do the same.

I am guessing that Ken has periods where he can't keep up, but also has periods where it is not like that, which makes it hard to absorb a salary and all that goes with it without raising prices substantially to cover this service. But one pattern seems to exist between those who have received good and bad parts, Ken is tough to get in touch with, possibly tougher when you have bad parts and that is not good for business. I need to know that when I get a bad part, the seller is going to stand behind it - 100%.

 

[ttman4]

I paid $32.80 for each injector,
++++++++++++
Martin told me today that the advance curve is what really wears on those pumps, especially at higher altitudes (like here in Albuquerque), and causes them to slowly drop off in performance.
+++++++++++++++++++
I've come to realize that if there was a good reliable way to make more power with these old trucks fuel systems, there would be more people doing it. That fuel injection pump was on TONS of vehicles for many years, so I'm pretty sure somebody would've figured out how to hotrod it years ago if it was easy. Same goes for the injectors...
Ryan /QUOTE]
Ryan,
$32.80 outright I assume....not exchange?

These pumps do wear & get out'a calibration etc....power curve, torque, setting, And there's more to calibrations than just turning the fuel screw......or whatever things that I have no idea what they are.

I do know that some kind of "HotRod" tweaking can be done to these things with stock stuff.....like pumps & injectors tweaking, etc, & they can be made to run like a scalded dog!! Scarey!!!.
I don't know what "Bubba" or "Dave" or what ever his name was, but "Bubba" did it to mine once back in '93-'94.
I was back in Dallas, Tx where I originally had my turbo installed & was needing my inj & pump gone thru (don't remember for sure, but I recall Turbo Specialist on Regal Row....doesn't matter now.)
They had done 3 rigs for me & we got along great. Back then I ran tons & tons of very heavy loaded miles & the rigs were set pretty strong.
Anyway, it was last day before shop closed for Xmas & they very busy. Told me to pull pump & inj in their shop bay & they would recal everything.
(Ahaaaa, the good 'ol days....They also would let me watch & ask questions back there in their "clean room" while they did all the secret stuff)
Got it all done, settled up with them, left as they closed the doors.

When I headed up the on ramp to I35 & showered down on it, I instantly knew I was in trouble....that thing blew a road full of smoke, kinda hunkered up in the middle, went to quivering & shaking & tires gnawing at the ground...even the front tires & it's 2WD! Pyro jumped to 1250 & 14-15 psi....a Screaming Demon!!!

Short of it all...I had to head back to Oregon with a really big Gooseneck load..."Light footed" it all the way watching gauges, goosebumped & nervous all the way. Called & talked to them first time they answered the phone. Said "bring-her-back"....
Several months later I got my pump recalibrated at another shop....they told me "it was set exactly double to specs"....I don't know. But I do know, I got just as good fuel mileage & had way in excess power as long as I drove it right & didn't let anyone else drive it. But if I tromped it, the pyro jumped up, fuel gauge dropped, & the road & cars behind me got oily & sooty from my fuel dumping out'a the tailpipe.....
Later I was back to Dallas & the story was that "Dave" had decided to quit them 2-3 weeks before he told anybody & he must'a been pissed or something....
I always figured he must have cost them lots of $$$ because they gave me a new inj pump, did lots of free work on my rigs for couple of years, etc.

I don't know what he did to make her run, but wished I did!!!