Methinks I have a dead DPS injector

[reklund]

Summary: I think I've got a dead injector on cylinder #1. What should I do, since I'm having trouble getting hold of Ken at DPS? Read on for the full version...



As you regulars know, I recently installed a DPS turbo-calibrated IP and stage 1 injector set in my '92. From the moment I installed the parts, I've been battling a rough idle. At first, I had a injector leaking externally, that Ken exchanged for me. I replaced that injector, and it cured the leak, but not my rough idle. I attributed the rough idle to not having the truck properly timed, and set out to get a timing meter. Meanwhile, the truck was running great, with better-than-ever boost numbers and power on the freeway. The idle just wouldn't smooth out...

I borrowed a MT-480 from Exekiel (thanks again!) but couldn't ever get a reading using cylinder #1. I tried a second MT-480 from Tom Brewer, and it didn't work either. I figured that I had 2 faulty meters, so I broke down and bought a MT-1480 digital meter on eBay. Hooked it up, and never got a reading on cylinder #1. I tried cylinder #2 (since it's easier to get at than #4, and the MT-1480 has the ability to offset for individual cylinders) and it worked great. Finally, some readings. I set the timing, but the idle didn't improve.

For kicks, I unhooked the meter from the lumy probe on cyl #2 and I could see the flash with my eye. I shut it down, and tried cylinder #1 again, and couldn't see any flash- period. I hadn't thought about it much until yesteday.

Yesterday, I tried my MT-1480 on another IDI (Tom- tell your wife thanks!) and hooked up to cyl #1. Guess what- it worked fine. I could see the flash through the lumy probe with my eye too...

Today, I did some more investigating. I don't think that the cyl #1 injector is firing at all. A local shop advised me to check the compression before I sink anymore money into the truck. I told them that the truck ran fine prior to the new fuel system, and then they agreed that the problem was likely associated with an injector or the pump.

I tried a zillion times today to reach Ken, but as we all know he's a busy guy with lots going on. I'm at the point that I just need my truck to run, and to run right. Tomorrow I plan to switch the #1 and #2 injectors to see if cyl #1 comes to life, and if I can see the flash through the lumy probe. If I determine the injector to be faulty, what can be done to fix it? Have it rebuilt locally? Replace the entire set with a locally sourced stock set? Hope the sun and moon align right to get hold of Ken?


I don't want to badmouth Ken, as he's provided a product that works as advertised when it comes to power, but I'm concerned that I'm only running on 7 holes most of the time. I just want it fixed!!!!!

Ryan

 

[argve]

I would advise against having someone local tearing apart the injector because more than likely they will replace parts which will return the injector back to almost stock. Plus Ken should probably be notified before because of warranty issues because if I remember correctly you didn't install these all that long ago.

 

[reklund]

either way, should the complete set be replaced to ensure they're all matched? I'd love to get hold of Ken, but I really need my truck to just run right, and waiting on him is getting hard to do. The local guys said they'd test all my parts and do their best to reproduce Kens setup when and if things need servicing. Is that even possible for them to do, or is Kens setup so super-secret that only he can reproduce it?

Ryan

 

[Diesel JD]

I guess you know that usually the best time to get Ken is to call around 9-10 in the morning Michigan time, which would be maybe 7-8 your time....even that doesn't always work. The bad thing is that if you have that inj. tested it will most likely flunk even if it is working according to Ken's specs. I hope he will get with you soon, cause you are kinda in a tight spot here. I don't think I'd run a stock injector with the Ken's setup...too different. Maybe you can get him to send you one ASAP and then send him back the suspicious one.

 

[reklund]

Confirmed a dead injector this morning. Switched #1 and #2, got no flash on cylinder #2 with the #1 injector installed. Moved #2 injector to cylinder #1, and have flash.

Tried repeatedly to contact Ken this morning, and still no luck. I ended up taking 2 injectors in to a local shop ( a known good one and the faulty one) and was assured that they could match whatever Ken did.

I'm supposed to get them back this afternoon or tomorrow, I'll post results then.

Ryan

 

[towcat]

ryan-
you're danged lucky you didn't hydrolock the cylinder. I had an injector hold open and hydro'ed the motor. unfortunately, the piston had a run at it so the rod bent.

 

[Diesel JD]

Dude that's horrible...I tried calling Ken a bunch today, for a long time it seemed the phone was off the hook. I wonder if he has more than a few injectors bad out of the box..... I was going to mention that he had a customer patiently waiting to contact him in NM...somebody that wasn't running him down, just needed a callback and some help quick..but I guess you got it taken care of and I have yet to speak with him,
J.D.

 

[reklund]

I know I'm lucky it held shut- the other way could have cost me tons in the long run.

I feel kinda bad that I didn't give Ken a chance to handle it, but at this point I need my truck to run. The local guy seems very knowledgeable, and was more than helpful, considering I haven't spent any money there. He knew from the get-go that I bought the parts mail order, and was still willing to help without charging me extra.

I think Ken has a good design, but he's had some problems lately (this isn't the only Injector issue I've had) and he's impossible to get hold of on the phone. I get the impression that he's got more business than he can handle at the moment, which is good for him, but bad for the rest of us.

I'll let y'all know how it turns out...

Ryan

 

[sle2115]

reklund,

Keep us posted about how it works out and if it all turns out good, maybe post the guys information that is helping you. I plan to buy a set of injectors in the near future, don't plan on going real hi-po as I am NA. In other words, maybe if the guy treats you right, then the rest of us can help him out by buying his product. I really haven't heard of anyone not having a problem from one of the vendors of our injectors at some point, but if a guy is ready to "fix" these issues and not so hard to get in touch with, I will give him my business.

Not sure where you are located, but there is no one around here that does anything much with IDI stuff. Keep us posted.

 

[reklund]

I'm in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and dealing with the guys at Central Motive Power. ( www.centralmotivepower.com ) They have locations in Colorado, and one here. I've been talking to Martin, and he seems very knowledgeable and very helpful with my situation. I'll know more tomorrow on how it's all going to shake out.

I've been driving a new Tundra for the past few days (From the rental fleet at the Toyota Dealership where I work...) and its good and bad. I've got a bad case of the "I want a new truck"s now, since the Ford is broke down and the Tundra is soooooo nice. I know the payment would kill me...but jeez, it's a nice ride...

Ryan

 

[TLBREWER]

I'm in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and dealing with the guys at Central Motive Power. ( www.centralmotivepower.com ) They have locations in Colorado, and one here. I've been talking to Martin, and he seems very knowledgeable and very helpful with my situation. I'll know more tomorrow on how it's all going to shake out.

Ryan

And he has great customer service. Ryan made him aware that if he can provide us some HiPo goodies, there is a small, niche market out there. Best part is when you call Central Motive, someone ALWAYS answers the phone.

Tom

 

[Diesel JD]

Central Motive Power...good folks to do biz with even long distance. I think it would be better if there were more options than just Ken for the Hi perf. IDI parts. Peace,
J.D.

 

[reklund]

So here's what shook out:

Martin at Central Motive Power (CMP) called me today, and told me that neither of the injectors that I took to him were any good. He advised that I go down to the shop and see for myself. I jumped in a rental truck from work and headed down to CMP.

I arrived to find the injectors from DPS on the tester, and set up to show the spray pattern. The injector that I deemed to be faulty just dribbled fuel like water from a garden hose. The other injector that I thought was good had a very erratic spray pattern, which would change every time it fired. Turns out, all DPS does is take a good reman'ed injector, and grinds the pintle off the end. Then they raise the pop-off pressure to try and get the fuel to atomize, even though the pintle has been ground flat. The nozzle and the rest of the injector are 100% stock, according to the local guys at CMP.

I talked at length with the guys there, and we decided the only way my truck was going to run properly was with 8 matched injectors in it. There wasn't anything they could do to fix the dead injector from DPS, so fixing and reinstalling the DPS parts was kind of out the window.

I ended up with 8 new Delphi injectors, that they bench tested to assure me they were good. I ran back to work, and immediately began tearing into my truck (good thing it was slow today at work...). I had all 8 injectors swapped out in 45 minutes, and the truck was running again. It idles as smooth as a new Camry now, with no more misfire issues. I was able to time it off of cylinder #1 for the first time, and took it for a ride.

It doesn't seem to have lost any noticable power, but it smokes less. Boost numbers are the same, and it's quieter. At this point, it cost me another $280 to get the damn truck running properly, but at least it runs.

I tried repeatedly today to contact Ken at DPS to discuss this with him before dropping money on new injectors, but never got through. Left several more messages with no return phone calls. Ken, if you read this, I challenge you to be a man, and contact me to arrange refunding my money on the injectors. I still have all 8 DPS injectors, and will return them upon receiving a refund on my credit card statement.

We'll see how long my DPS Injection Pump lasts before it ***** the bed...

Ryan

 

[Darrin Tosh]

I have been having probelms with hearing back from Ken also. He is making himself look bad.

 

[sle2115]

I am not looking for hipo though, so these guys sound like a good place for me to do business. I don't have a turbo and with things changing like they are at work (I am instructing 19 contact hours + doing my regular job this quarter) I will probably be looking for work elsewhere and won't be spending much on the IDI. At any rate, I would like to change the injectors, not because it runs bad, but with 148,000 on the originals, I figure it needs it! I know it needs return lines (which I have) as the ones on it are wired on with twist ties!!! Remarkebly, it runs great and starts as good as anything after waiting for the glow plugs to cycle. No one that looks under the hood believes I don't have air problems. I have had the return line set for a year, and as I said, I hate to replace cause it runs so good, but will do them with the injectors.

What was the price on 8 injectors? (was that what you got for $280 or was there other stuff as well?)

Thanks for the response. I am afraid I won't deal with anyone who has such poor customer service as well. The guy I used to work with knew how to tune injectors as well. I rebuilt a bunch, shimming to proper pop-off level, spray pattern etc. but never did play with trying to make them higher performance, per say.