Let's talk filtration

[Agnem]

I am currently processing a warranty claim for a Moose Pump with a hot start issue. I personally built this pump in January, and when it left the building, it put out 4.6cc/100 of starting fuel. The minimum spec that we allow is 3.6cc/100 and that is slightly above what the factory specs which can go as low as 2.8cc/100 are. In order for it to fail to start the truck, it has had to loose almost half of its pumping efficiency at 75 shaft RPM (150 engine cranking speed).

The customer has had the pump for about 3 months. The reason that he bought a new pump from us, is that his original pump developed a hot start issue. Hmmm.... what would you be thinking? You probably remember my explanation of the hot start phenomena back in THIS POST . In dealing with this customer, we have had a detailed discussion that outlines the fact that in order for him to kill a pump in 3 months, that he has something seriously wrong with his fuel. Like a lot of people, he didn't want to believe that this could really be the case. He buys his fuel at a high volume, popular and well known fueling station, put a fresh filter on when he installed the pump, and does not feel that it could be anything other than a faulty pump. I don't blame him. Most people don't spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff, and most people are satisfied that "any NEW filter must be good enough, or they wouldn't sell them."

The truth is, that is not the case. When you buy a filter, you are making a decision, and often times that decision is based on price. Filter manufacturers never put the filter specs on the box. They should. If you were on a low salt diet, would you go into a grocery store and buy just any food? Or would you read the side of the box looking for the sodium content? Of course you would. My mom is on a low sodium diet for heart reasons, and I've seen some things in the store that when I saw the sodium content, I figured if she ate that it would hospitalize her for sure, if not outright kill her! We are all on a low micron diet, and need to be reading labels. There is an excellent discussion of micron sizes and how Hastings filters are rated at http://www.hastingsfilter.com/TechTips201403.html

The Hastings 1039SP filter that we sell for the 7.3 has a nominal micron rating of 4 microns at 50% That means only HALF the fuel is filtered to 4 micron. What's in the other half? Well, it could be 20. 97% of the time for that half of the fuel that remains. That still leaves 3% that could sneak by as something larger than 20 microns. And those ratings are REALLY GOOD! Makes you wonder what a cheaper, lower quality filter allows? Food for thought. KNOW your filtration when you buy.

 

[Mulochico]

So, I won't start the "which filter is best" discussion again!!! But, I will ask, Which filter do you use/recommend?

Edit: I am currently using the Wix 33417

 

[Agnem]

Last time I checked, the Wix had a nominal rating of 6 microns at 50%. Wix is a well respected brand with good build quality. I'm not sure what their absolute rating is, but I'll bet it is 20 also. I use and recommend the Hastings. When I bought my company. I wanted to sell filters to ensure our customers have a good reliable brand to put on their machine, so I wouldn't have warranty issues. I researched the brand, and they are from Clarcor who also makes Baldwin. That is another well known brand. The Hastings rep visits my company, and we have had a lot of good conversations, and I've learned a lot of things. I have confidence that Hastings is one of the best.

 

[IDIoit]

Food for thought.
some people wont like this, as a business man, i look at everything from the provider to the customer.
why not increase the price of your pumps to include 2 Hastings. and give the 2 year warranty you provide when you purchase the filters?
i know everyone is about spending the least amount of cash. but this way you can possibly delete this issue from the start.

and to be dead honest, if i was concerned about price, i would have went to another guy. but with your products,
i know im getting superior quality. and that outweighs everything IMO.

one instance comes to mind.
i ship very small parts on a monthly basis. back when these parts came into production, we shipped them in our usual shipping methods. 1 part per capsule
15% of the product was delivered broken.
of course we replaced the broken parts, and tried other methods of packaging.

we ended up making a fixture plate, to hold these, and now we get 100% unbroken delivery rate.
we do charge a "core" charge for the fixtures, to ensure they ship them back.
this was about 4 years ago, and our customer couldnt be happier.

 

[Agnem]

I've thought of that. But some guys have already bought a case of XYZ filters, and don't like the idea of paying for a filter. It's the whole "filter as a commodity" thing, which requires extra time and a willingness to converse about it.

 

[BDCarrillo]

The Roosa Master DB2 manual calls for filtering out 75-80% of five micron particles...

 

[ironworker40]

So, I won't start the "which filter is best" discussion again!!! But, I will ask, Which filter do you use/recommend?

Edit: I am currently using the Wix 33417

Wix and Napa are the same and the worst micron ratings of all of the big name brand that I looked at. 3314 is 14 micron rating and they dont tell you if it is nominal or absolute. There filters listed are either 12 or 14 micron depending on which one you choose.

 

[ironworker40]

http://www.parker.com/literature/Racor/Racor_Fuel_Filtration_-_Fuel-Filtration-History_-_7550.pdf
Here is some more light reading on filters water separation and micron rating and even talks about our style rotary pumps, Mel you in particular should find it interesting.

 

[PwrSmoke]

The problems here are;

1) Many people don't know much about fuel filtration or the right questions to ask.

2) Filter specs are not commonly or readily available.

I have found that if you contact a company directly and ask for the filtration specs for a particular part number, they will give it. Ask for both nominal and absolute and be happy if you get both, but insist upon one or the other. Or Beta ratios. If you can't get info on a particular filter, move on to another.

Don't rely on second hand info. Filter specs change, so a catalog that is a few years old might be inaccurate. Internet info... well???

FYI, WIX has historically been very upfront with publishing info but that has changed in the past few years. Much of the info listed is homogenized or out of date. I have called on a couple of things and found the actual info is different than the published. Some of the published stuff is still OK, it's just that my confidence that the info is 100% trustworthy has been eroded.

Final word, there is no such thing as fuel too clean! Upgrade!

 

[IDIoit]

I've thought of that. But some guys have already bought a case of XYZ filters, and don't like the idea of paying for a filter. It's the whole "filter as a commodity" thing, which requires extra time and a willingness to converse about it.

Mel, i couldnt be happier with your products.
contrary to a certain FTE members opinion (heavy on "opinion") ( and we wont get into that BS)
your products speak for itself.
one may point out that you know what the F you're doing.
if i was to call you tomorrow to buy my first product, and you told me that i need to run these filters.
then so be it.
when you sent me my hastings, i couldnt put it on fast enough.

i would consider this a personal trait, as long as the consumer knows why. he wouldnt hesitate to purchase the required equipment.

 

[BrandonMag]

Hhhmmm... I never put a lot of thought into my fuel filter choice. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[chris142]

I wonder if someone put sand in his tank? I run a 30 micron wix water seperator ahead of my stock 6.9 filter. Currently running a quaker state filter.made in USA and closky resembles a fram. I cut my last one open after 13k and it looked well built. Although looks don't mean much.

Our fuel seems to be very clean as there was nothing in either filter.

 

[Shadetreemechanic]

My local pump builder won't warranty unless you run racor, motorcraft, or hastings. He likes Racor best.

 

[mcghan]

thanks for the heads up,was thinking a filter was a filter,got me thinking maybe i need a better filtration system to cut down on chance on possible problems in the future

 

[Kevin 007]

Im running a Racor R45S in place of my factory 6.9 water separator. Its a 2 micron filter separator. Don't know if that's absolute, but probably not. And that's ahead of my stock filter which I use either Baldwin or Fleetgaurd. At this point, its as fine of filtration as Ive been able to figure out.