Intermittent sputtering, surging, but no fuel leaks.

[Rossroams]

So as I was about to drive the truck to my local shop to have the 2” RSK welded on my truck started acting up. About two cranks before the engine started (not much at all), and then it fired up with high idle. The idle sounds fine, then gets rough with some sputtering and white smoke, nothing major. Then it surged while idling for 10-15 seconds consistently rising and falling a few 100 rpms. Then I back the truck up on a hill as the front is facing up and the truck stutters and rpms fall as it cuts off; yet it starts fine with some throttle. While looking I find no fuel leaks, filter is new, but the Facet pump has a crap in the bottom of the filter.

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As a reminder all of the video is taken when the truck is in high idle.

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[Rossroams]

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Video of normal idle off high idle

 

[IDIBRONCO]

By the way it starts to "clatter" louder in the first video and your desription, I'd suspect air intrusion. it may not be real bad now, but if it is, it will get worse. You don't have to be able to see leaking fuel in order to have air seep through when the engine's not running. I'd start with your connections on the pre injector pump fittings first. See if anything is slightly loose.

 

[Fixnstuff]

>snip
Then I back the truck up on a hill as the front is facing up and the truck stutters and rpms fall as it cuts off; yet it starts fine with some throttle. While looking I find no fuel leaks, filter is new, but the Facet pump has a crap in the bottom of the filter.

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FIRST, I am wondering, if you have two fuel tanks that are operational: have you tried switching to the other tank? If that corrects the surging and rough running I think that could narrow the problem down to the fuel line coming from the tank you were using when the problem occurred and then it would be more likely the line between the tank and the the fuel selector valve.


You need to closely examine and diagnose that crud in the Facet electric lift pump filter. If it's rust from previous condensation/water in the tank (can be red or black) then a magnet will pick it up. If its black, very light and slippery rather than gritty and dissolves easily in water, like if you rub the material between your fingers in water and it becomes suspended it the water it might be algae that formed in condensation/water in the fuel - if the truck sat for a long time. It could be tiny pieces of plastic from a former broken fuel pick up, aka 'shower head.' I would want to know what it is/where it's coming from so I'll know what I need to do correct it.

The recommended starting procedure from the Ford factory shop manuals is: Turn key to 'on' position (Wait to Start light comes on) and then press down on and release the accelerator pedal one time. That allows the fast idle rod to extend to the fast idle position.

Other than that, you should never have to press on the accelerator pedal to start it. Unless perhaps you are trying to overcome an air/fuel leak or some such issue.


About 5 days ago I experienced surging and rough running for the first time in the 4 years that I have owned my truck, Immediately after switching from the rear tank to the full front tank, while driving 30-35 mph, engine fully warmed up.
After a couple of minutes I switched back to the rear tank and the problem immediately stopped. Today I am going to diagnose and fix that issue. After I get some sleep.

 

[Rossroams]

.

FIRST, I am wondering, if you have two fuel tanks that are operational: have you tried switching to the other tank? If that corrects the surging and rough running I think that could narrow the problem down to the fuel line coming from the tank you were using when the problem occurred and then it would be more likely the line between the tank and the the fuel selector valve.


You need to closely examine and diagnose that crud in the Facet electric lift pump filter. If it's rust from previous condensation/water in the tank (can be red or black) then a magnet will pick it up. If its black, very light and slippery rather than gritty and dissolves easily in water, like if you rub the material between your fingers in water and it becomes suspended it the water it might be algae that formed in condensation/water in the fuel - if the truck sat for a long time. It could be tiny pieces of plastic from a former broken fuel pick up, aka 'shower head.' I would want to know what it is/where it's coming from so I'll know what I need to do correct it.

The recommended starting procedure from the Ford factory shop manuals is: Turn key to 'on' position (Wait to Start light comes on) and then press down on and release the accelerator pedal one time. That allows the fast idle rod to extend to the fast idle position.

Other than that, you should never have to press on the accelerator pedal to start it. Unless perhaps you are trying to overcome an air/fuel leak or some such issue.


About 5 days ago I experienced surging and rough running for the first time in the 4 years that I have owned my truck, Immediately after switching from the rear tank to the full front tank, while driving 30-35 mph, engine fully warmed up.
After a couple of minutes I switched back to the rear tank and the problem immediately stopped. Today I am going to diagnose and fix that issue. After I get some sleep.

The material in the Facet pump are red bits of metal I believe. I’ve got a 38 gallon tank to swap in and my front tank developed a hole in it during the summer. It can’t hurt to replace the tank and start from there. It’s been about three years since I’ve done return lines; might need to replace them again.

 

[Fixnstuff]

I'll tell you what immediately solved the issue I was having with surging and sputtering after I switched to the front tank. (RISLONE
Diesel Fuel System Treatment (4740)) Complete Fuel system Cleaner

https://rislone.com/product/diesel-fuel-system-treatment-4740/

The next day, I didn't do any of the diagnostics I had mentioned, didn't check anything. I started the truck on the front tank. It sounded a little rough and after about 5 seconds the engine died. I think the outdoor temp. was 40 deg. F (4.4 deg. C)

I restarted it, kept it running this time by depressing the accelerator pedal a little bit for more fuel to keep it from stalling again and after about 10-15 seconds it would hold a fast idle. I always wait about 15+ seconds after the oil pressure comes up before I start driving and drive easy until the temperature gauge starts moving up past the low line to maybe half way to it's normal operating temperature.

I drove on the front tank to my credit union to get some money and back home. It was still running rough. The bottle of fuel system treatment, including an algaecide that I had in my shed was almost empty, maybe 1/2 cup left. I put that in the front tank and then drove to get fuel. Filled the rear tank and topped off the front tank which took 4 gallons. I think that is a 19 gallon tank, rear tank 16 gallons.

Then I drove a couple of miles to a parts store where I bought the bottle of RISLONE, enough to treat 30-35 gallons and a bottle of "CLEAR-DIESEL" 'Fuel and Tank Cleaner' by POWER SERVICE enough to treat 100 gallons:
https://powerservice.com/psp_product/clear-diesel-fuel-tank-cleaner/ an interesting note on that page:

Water has always been a problem in diesel fuel. But today’s cleaner-burning fuels have dramatically reduced sulfur content and are more prone to water separation, contamination and are inherently unstable.

I put almost the whole bottle of Rislone in the front tank. Even though it has a convenient spout that also fit on the Power Service container you can't tell how much is going into the tank without using a funnel. I put the small amount of Rislone that was left into the rear tank and too much of the Power Service product but that wont hurt it.

I started the truck and it very quickly ran better,. very well with no issues. In fact it ran so well that by the time I had made a couple of stops and restarts, from the first one, my fast idle and curb idle had increased by 100 RPM. The injector noise had also noticeably decreased. My only explanation for the increased RPM is that the injectors were cleaned and the reduced clatter is from some extra lubrication and cleaning of the injectors.

I would expect a similar fuel treatment to help your situation because, I believe that in South Carolina you have had some unusual weather during the past year or two, with that extreme rains and flooding plus some unusually cold weather. The colder weather increases the condensation in the fuel tanks and might be part of the reason for the hole in the front tank (internal rust)

Contaminated fuel could be the whole cause of your issue or at least part of it and I would highly recommend adding a good fuel system treatment to that tank. My choices were made by comparing the labels on the products at local parts store and I didn't buy the highest priced ones.

 

[Bio-Bradley]

By the way it starts to "clatter" louder in the first video and your desription, I'd suspect air intrusion. it may not be real bad now, but if it is, it will get worse. You don't have to be able to see leaking fuel in order to have air seep through when the engine's not running.

I also think of air intrusion with your discovery. I have had a similar issue and replaced the fuel injector return lines, o-rings and plastic caps with an inexpensive kit. I then bled the fuel lines by loosening the fuel injector line nuts so fuel would seep out, cranking the engine (I have a mechanical fuel pump, so I need to do this step), tightening the line nuts as fuel begins to seep out and then try starting it up. Good luck!