rhkcommander
Full Access Member
What about mounting it sideways or off to the side like AC/ALT/etc
idi with bosch injection pump
- Thread starter idifreak
- Start date
Don't forget you need to plumb an oil supply and drain on that thing. Have you counted the teeth on the gears and compared the count? If they don't match, you will have your hands full building an adapter.
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I once thought about doing this. I may still do it. The biggest problem you're going to have is due to the inherent design of the engine being IDI. The DV-550 is a direct-injected engine. IDI injectors aren't really injectors as most people think of them. They are nozzles that release fuel once the pop-off pressure is reached and deliver the charge metered and pressurized by the injection pump. The main difference is IDI injectors release a squirt of fuel compared to a mist from DI injectors. DI'd engines have the combustion chamber in the piston bowl, whereas IDI engines begin combustion in the precup. The precup serves to swirl the air-fuel charge and properly homogenize the charge into the cylinder... What I'm getting at is IDI injectors won't work for this pump. They typically pop off at 1400-1700 psi, which is what the DB-2 IPs pressurize the fuel at. Most inline pumps pressurize fuel at 7500 psi or so. The only way I can see this working properly is to try and get direct-injected style pistons from an engine of similar bore, remove the precup, and machine the head for some type of insert to hold a DI injector with an offset nozzle angle. Cummins used offset-style injectors on the first two iterations of the 5.9 until they went to the VP-44 pump, which had centered injectors.
6.9poweredscout
Bleeds IH red...
hood? you don't need that!
Also, distributor-style pumps have less moving parts compared to inline pumps. Two examples of mechanical rotary pumps are the Stanadyne DB2 and the Bosch VE. The Stanadyne DB2 produces 6,700 psi of pressure, while the Bosch VE produces 17,000 psi.
Read more: http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/0904dp_diesel_injection_pumps/viewall.html#ixzz2ho5xa9qU
Think you got your numbers a littlbe bit off.
there is plenty of guys running injectors pop tested to 2300 psi if i am not mistaken either.
Read more: http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/0904dp_diesel_injection_pumps/viewall.html#ixzz2ho5xa9qU
Think you got your numbers a littlbe bit off.
there is plenty of guys running injectors pop tested to 2300 psi if i am not mistaken either.
i think you would not need that much amount of fuel either since are engines are more efficent. think the highest rated db2 pump being run is at 180 cc of fuel for eight cylinders. most guys do mild upgrades to powerstrokes to 100 cc injectors for one cylinder. just saying we are doing more with less to be at stock powerstroke levels with an idi with only a few upgrades or modifications.
once you turn up the flow the amount of fuel i.e. inline pump the more preassue at the injector is going to porduce a better atomised fuel.
cheers
once you turn up the flow the amount of fuel i.e. inline pump the more preassue at the injector is going to porduce a better atomised fuel.
cheers
NO_SPRK
User & Abuser
Ok what about lube? Is this lubed by fuel or oil?
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Registered User
That was my mistake. Most P-pumps pressurize fuel at 17400 psi, whereas A-pumps are at 10875 psi. Yes, R & D Performance as well as a couple others shim IDI injectors from 2200 to 2300 psi. The problem is that the huge pressure differential between the pump and injectors will cause the injector to inject fuel much earlier than they should. The injectors aren't made for those kinds of pressure, so I'd be surprised if IDI injectors held together under those pressures. Also, IDI injectors don't work like multi-orifice style injectors found in DI engines. If the injectors do hold up and we disregard the massive changes to timing, fuel won't atomize better at higher pressures. Once fuel breaches the pop off pressure in these IDI injectors, the pintle lifts off the seat in the nozzle and sprays over the end of the pintle. These injectors are very similar to the garden hose nozzles with the twist-handle adjustments.
I'm not trying to dissuade you; however, I am trying to make you aware of the biggest hurdle you'll likely face with this venture. If this hasn't dissuaded you then I hope you can find a good pump shop and machinist to help you overcome these problems. Cheers.
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icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
A stock "G" code injector pops at 2200 lbs. So how is that much different than 2300 lbs and causing trouble for the stock turbo DB2 injection pump. Some time back I was discussing the pop pressure up around 2400 or 2500 pop pressure. Issues found doing that is the DB2 and the injectors wont last much longer than 100,000 miles. But for the hp and mileage increase it was a good move. Shimming a set of new BB codes might be a nice test along with a newly rebuilt Moose pump...
Not sure where all these numbers are coming from regarding inline pump operating pressures. I suspect some confusion with first gen common rail systems. There are not any injectors that I am aware of that are PLN technology that pop higher than 6000 PSI. Hardly any pop above 4700. You can run a stock IDI injector with that pump, no problem. The only thing you will have to figure out is how to time it. Injectors are designed for the cylinder they go in. Not the pump that runs them. It's true that to properly calibrate a pump, the injector pop pressure has to be factored in, but that is for a STOCK application. Your pump calibration is meaningless once you go down this road.
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Hm, I was unaware the IDI Max Lagod put together had IDI injectors. All of the ideas I posted were just things I thought about that could be problems. I've seen an injector come apart in a 6.9 before. The nozzles aren't very thick. They can probably tolerate the abuse providing they are rebuilt properly or new and pop-tested.
88 Ford
Full Access Member
Can't you time it in a similar manner that a Cummins would be timed? Just set the timing where you want it and not worry about the dynamic timing? You lose variability in the timing but it works for all the p-pumped engines...
bbjordan
Snow Monkey
OMG! That pump is huge! No wonder the DB2 became so popular.
I foresee a custom intake needed...
I foresee a custom intake needed...
