I need some big time diagnostic help. Lots of photos and as much info as I can muster

[nitroguy]

I need some diagnostic help! Lots of photos. {Newly Edited!}

Ok, here goes. My mechanic says I'm in trouble, but I'm not buying it, even though he's the best one in town (he hasn't heard of Moose pumps, so how good can he be?)

Meet Hank:

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I'll start at the beginning. I bought this truck 2,500 miles ago in Seattle from a diesel mechanic. He was given the truck because the head gasket went out, so he pulled the engine, "inspected it, painted it, and sealed it all back up again with every hose and gasket brand new" (his words). A couple of days later I loaded up every one of my earthly belongings into the truck, rented a UHaul trailer and towed my Civic from Seattle, over three mountain passes, to Kalispell Montana where I now live. I noticed it was smoking a bit (http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?60452-newbie-Smokin-like-a-Son-of-a-Gun-(w-pic)&p=702254#post702254 but was told I'd be fine.

Well, the smoking continued, so I took it to the local guy here that specializes in diesel trucks. He looked at it, and at first was "wowed" by how nice it all looked. That got my hopes up. Then he called me the next day and told me less than great news. He said that he thinks it's either a bad head gasket or a cracked head. Neither are cheap. Here's a bit of what I know that it does (and I'm new to diesel's, so forgive any non-technical terms)

*Pulls just fine. Doesn't seem to be any loss of power. But mileage is in the toilet (can't get past 10mpg)
*Eats coolant. To the tune of a gallon a thousand miles or so. But no apparent drips.
*Doesn't really eat any oil that I've noticed.
*195k miles, pump replaced "5 years ago" - no idea how many miles. Original injectors from what I understand.
*Starts just fine when cold. I always plug it in below 32*, but if I don't it still starts. It'll rumble and cough a bit, but it's never not started within 2 seconds of cranking. Coldest non-plug-in start was I thin around 16*.
*Mechanic here said that compression is quite low (but didn't do a check since it's apparently really hard to do so?)
*I pull the dip stick with the engine running and I get quite the cloud of smoke that blows up and out of the tube. Mechanic said that's bad and indicates worn rings.
*Radiator is very positively charged with air, even when cold. It doesn't pull coolant from recovery tank either (tank was full, radiator was a gallon low). I replaced the cap in hopes that it might fix it.

That's most of what I can think of.

So, here's my question. It runs pretty well now, but it smokes. A lot. Obnoxiously so. I'd love to fix it, but not spend a million bucks either. Mechanic seems to think injectors and pump ($1300 for him to do that, with a reman pump) would be a waste of money on a truck with a bad head gasket or head. He said to just keep an eye on coolant and oil levels and drive it for the next year before it completely dies.

That sucks. I just paid $4600 for this truck (I think I got a good deal!) and I don't really want to engine swap. Just started a new job in a new town with a new baby, so it's not really an option for me to do much work myself: sadly.

Also, mechanic pulled some breather off the turbo and let it vent to atmosphere. Apparently that cleared up the smoke a bit. Is that something I could do long-term to reduce smoke? For what it's worth, he said the inside of the turbo was pretty gunked up.

What I'd love: to have a truck that starts every time, pulls well, gets good mileage while not towing, and lasts another 60k miles. Tranny, diffs, ball joints, hubs, bushings: it's all new and very well maintained. So it's just the engine that's bugging me.

I did crawl around the truck when I bought it and snapped a bunch of pics. Here's a link to all 62 of them, in the off chance that you'll notice something out of order, something that I can look at, etc.

Photos: https://picasaweb.google.com/107364...authkey=Gv1sRgCJPtlbeszPmGiwE&feat=directlink

Thanks! I hope someone can help me!

 

[racer30]

You don't say what color the smoke is. The color could tell some more things to look for. It sounds to me like you could have some blow by filling the air filter and turbo with oil. If you don't have alot of money to throw at it I would try putting some " diesel clean" in it to clean the injectors and look into treating the oil to loosen stuck rings. keep a close eye on the coolant and check for coolant smell in the exhaust right after start up. What oil do you run? Have you checked SCA's in the coolant? If the PO was a diesel mech it should be fine. I'm sure more people will have some more info for you. coming here for help is the best way to get info on IDI's

 

[79jasper]

^^X2 on the color of smoke.
Also seems like a common thing to use "auto rx." I think that's what it's called. After the engine I just tore into, I would say could be cavitation or a cracked cylinder wall. The compression test is NOT that hard. You can search here and find everything you need.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Were I in your boat, I would remove the radiator-cap and warm up the engine, dump TWO big-truck-sized bottles of PELLETTED BARS LEAKS in the radiator, replace the cap, and immediately drive it at least thirty miles to circulate things.

Then, I would just keep a weather-eye on the coolant level and drive the **** out of it.

From your description of the situation, and it being a 7.3-IDI, I highly suspect that cavitation has eroded a tiny pin-hole through a cylinder-wall, thus the rapid loss of coolant, low compression, and smoke.

The fuel-mileage is actually about average for most run-of-the-mill IDIs, but is also probably suffering due to the fire being queenched in the one cylinder.


So long as things did not get progressively worse, I would just dump in another bottle of Bars Leaks about every 60-days and drive it until it quit; you can't hurt it any worse than it already is and the Bars Leaks will buy you a few years to give you time to locate a good 1st Gen. 6BT Cummins to swap in.

That is what I would do.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

One more thing I will add :

Replace the radiator-cap with a LEVER-LOCK cap of the appropriate PSI.

Thus, instead of spewing coolant all over when loosening the cap, you can first raise the lever to vent all the pressure into the over-flow jug.


I have LEVER-LOCK caps on all of my stuff.

 

[Kalashnikov]

Thing that sounds sketchy is that he said compression was low. There's no way to know that unless it is tested.

My 93 lasted til 189xxx miles on original injectors and IP. The last 3 or 4k miles before that it devolped a miss before it failed to start. Cracked the injector lines and no fuel. Injectors looked very rough when I pulled them.

I put in a rebuilt IP and new BB injectors and when it is cold it smokes similar to yours until maybe 10 minutes. Currently it's been 20s and teens here. Doesn't always start up on the first try due to a GP or two needing replacement I believe. I alos only get around 10mpg.

IMO I would replace the IP and injectors and keep driving it. You could try adding a radiator sealant. Personally I have had EXCLLENT luck with Alumaseal stop leak. It comes in a little tube and is about 3 or 4 bucks. I have used it in my 89 IDI radiator when it deveolped a pin hole leak and I used it in my deuce and a half radiator after I sealed up a few tubes with JB Weld due to a large branch stabbing it. I sold the deuce 8ish months later it asn't leaking. My IDI hasn't leaked and that was in April and I even got the coolant boiling hot a FEW times (thermostat/fan issue in the summer).

 

[towcat]

as maligned as bar's leak is on this board, it has it's purpose in prolonging a travel journey or keeping a expensive repair at bay.
color of smoke is critical information. as far as diesels in pickup trucks is concerned, the IH idi is the most economical in the repair budget sense. more information is needed and better advice can be given.

 

[f-two-fiddy]

IMO, Your mechanic is prolly right. I'd suspect head gasket failure.

If the mechanic you bought it from did not have the heads checked, they could be warped. From every post I've read, these heads should be unbolted carefully to prevent warping. If the first mech just hit the bolts with an impact....

As with any problems that occur after a repair was made, the first thing to do is to go back and double check the previous repair. There is usually something missed, step not followed, etc.

It might be worth a trip around the head bolts with a torque wrench??

 

[f-two-fiddy]

as maligned as bar's leak is on this board, it has it's purpose in prolonging a travel journey or keeping a expensive repair at bay.
color of smoke is critical information. as far as diesels in pickup trucks is concerned, the IH idi is the most economical in the repair budget sense. more information is needed and better advice can be given.

Most manufacturers have been using it in brand new engines for years now. Mainly to reduce initial owner complaints of coolant leaks, and improve perceived quality of the new vehicle.


I personally will shy away from it at all costs. But recently I installed a new water pump, rad, hoses on the gasser. After filling the brand new radiator, it was leaking slightly from one of the coolant tubes. I did not ding the dang thing I needed the truck for work, so in went 2 tablets of Bars. It's been holding just fine for 10 K miles.

 

[Alan Slingsby]

Thats a beutiful truck and would want to save it..i do agree with above posts,cavitation or head problems but iam no where near a mechanic

 

[Matrix37495]

I suspect the low fuel mileage is due to the age of the injection system.

The radiator being pressurized does kinda scream bad headgasket or cavitation (very tiny hole in the side of a cylinder)....

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

+1 on aluminum seal or barsleak and driving it.

Another thing you should look at is testing the antifreeze for the SCA additive. Call you local NAPA and/or International dealer and ask them if they have the test strips. Very simple and easy to test, just dip the strips in your antifreeze and see if it's got the anti-cavitation SCAs in it.

If it's got SCA's I think you're probably looking at head gaskets, which isn't the end of the world. If the strips show that you have no additive, much more likely that you could have a cavitation damaged block.

Keep checking things and posting, you've got a great group of eyes and ears here

 

[OLDBULL8]

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/sh...on-Block-Worm-The-Expensive-Death-A-MUST-READ!

If you don't get any hydro lock on start up, it's not likely that you have cavitation, read the link above. The IDI tech articles has alot of info in it. That mechanic shouldn't have removed the CDR, that's the crankcase vent, and the venting should be returned to the intake thru the turbo, if the CDR is dirty and not operating properly or has a blown diaphram it will suck up a lot of oil and possible be the cause of smoking.

 

[riotwarrior]

So you are swallowing coolant and not getting decent mileage, have blow by; ok well we can do a couple of quick/dirty/cheap try's keeping it all around $100 bucks +- and if that is not what you want to do or it don't work, it's time to get SpEnDy with the $$$$$. It is of course your choice what you want to do. Cheap quick dirty first...spendy second or SPENDY off the hop!

IMHO your mechanic has NO clue...to say it's got low comp, without so much as testing it...is a farce! He's a joke!

Get the comp test done correctly or better yet get a leakdown test done!

now .....

Lets look at this as if first it's potenital cavitation/HG failure, as this method is least expensive!

I'm not a fan of BARS leaks, however there is a product in Canada I am familiar with called Iron Tite or Tight. IT's THE sealant to use. YOU MUST follow instructions,
http://www.irontite.com/

It's a ceramic based material to which you completely drain coolant system, including block plugs...PUT PETCOCKS IN now while at it!

FIll cooling system with water....do a quick flush to remove residual AF....refill system with water add the product run engine blah blah...read instructions!!!!!!! and follow them, this shites the BOMB! IT is a comprehensive method yes indeed, however it is by far the best I have used thus far IMHO

NOW IF it's head gaskets, this means RE n RE....no big deal can be done, yes COSTS more than a bottle or two of sealer!

Thus if sealer does not cure the problem, the it's time to go deeper.

As for Blow by....

Cheap....Auto RX
http://www.auto-rx.com/
Do a treatment right off the hop and gitter done quickly...but solve coolant first...no sense going at this till that's solved or do them together...your choice....

Expensive....Rebuild time

Fuel system... Cheap....DIESEL PURGE
http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/diy-diesel-injector-service/
Do this right off the hop, hope for best,

Expensive,
New IP and injectors....

These are some quality options and the only one I personally have NOT used is Auto RX, others here have and have had good results, I'm game to try, and likely will in due time.

I hope this helps you out a bit and if you have any questions or concerns I can answer please ask, I will do my best to answer as others will too

JM2CW

Al

 

[Dave 001]

\

Unless the mechanic has a 6th sense with a compression gauge built into his eyes, that, in my opinion, is a really weak statement. I was trusting the mechanic until he came out with that statement. Good batteries, good cables, and a good starter will have an engine with great compression turning over with ease. So there is no way to know anything about the compression without doing a compression test. It's easier to do a compression test on an IDI than it is to do on some gas engines I've done (like a 351 in a van, that's almost impossible).

As others have said, the color of the smoke (and the odor) may help figure out what is wrong. If it smells sweet, it's coolant.

You said it is lossing a lot of coolant. If it was mine, I'd pressure test the cooling system. I have seen engines loose coolant through an external leak and never so much as get a drop of coolant on the ground. The leak was at a spot where the coolant evaporated and dried out before ever hitting the ground. I've also seen water pump weep holes do this......between leking onto a hot engine and the fan blasting the leaking coolant with air, it dried out before ever reaching the ground.

If you don't find any external leak, DON'T CRANK THE ENGINE. If the leak put coolant into a cylinder, you could end up ruining the engine by beanding a rod or worse. If no external leak, remove all eight glow plugs and have somebody else bump the engine over while you look for coolant blowing out of one of the glow plug holes. If coolant blows out, you've got a blown head gasket, cracked head, or cracked/holed block. Somebody already diagnosed a blown head gasket.....replaced the head gasket......and the problem is still there.....that doesn't eliminate the head gaskets but it does knock them down the list of potential culprits. The head could be warped and thus unable to seal the head gasket. It sounds like who ever did the head gaskets should have checked a little deeper.....eg. pressure test the heads and check for warpage. If they did pressure test the heads & did check for warpage and all was good, then the block is probably cracked/holed.

If you can't get into a major repair, try the stop leak products. As others here have mentioned, some people swear by the ceramic or "glass" type stop leak repairs but follow the directions carefully....the coolant must be drained out and you must use straight water. If it's cold where you are, don't let the engine freeze and crack with the straight water. Even if you can't get into a major repair, you need to test things as I stated above. That will determine which route you need to take.

Once you have a stop leak product in your cooling system, don't use your block heater......it will burn out. Been there, done that. And the bottle even told me not to do it but I didn't listen.

If you have a coolant filter, close the valves (if you have them) or bypass it when you add stop leak type products.....the filter will filter them out......again... been there, done that. The stop leak may have a chance to "fix" the leak before the filter filters it all out or my may not "fix" the leak before the filter filters it all out. Either way, the stop leak will end up in the filter eventually and it will stop all flow through the filter. No big deal....the filter is just doing its job. But if all the stop leak is in the filter, it can't stop the leak.

I would figure out what the coolant loose is all about and fix it before spending money on an injection pump and injectors. The coolant loose could very well be causing the blowby problem and there could be nothing wrong with the injection pump or injectors. As far as bad mileage, from what I've seen, driving style has the biggest influence on that. I drive like an old man, have OD & 3.54 gears and get great mileage. Those who drive like an idiot all the time or have 4.10 gears or no OD get worse mileage. But I have seen C6 equipped trucks get better mileage than trucks with O/D and locking converters simply because of how the person drove it. Weight also has an effect on mileage (not so much your weight but the weight of the truck...haha). But first I would figure the coolant problem and worry about the mileage after that is fixed.