I need some big time diagnostic help. Lots of photos and as much info as I can muster

[junk]

Do you ever run hot? Also is there a chance the hose between the radiator and purge tank is collapsed or blocked off only letting coolant out but not back? My 93 ran hot and was chronically low on coolant until I figured out the tank was cracked so any coolant put in the tank leaked out thus leaving the coolant system low. Wondered if something similar was happening but only with your hose being the issue.

Also get a 3rd or 4th opinion as most mechanics don't sem to know what they are doing.

Good luck.

 

[Black dawg]

Do you know if mechanic #1 had the heads checked by a machine shop.

be carefull with overdoing the bars leak, add it with a completely full cooling system, and put some miles on it.

If you are ever plan on being south of Missoula, let me know, I would be happy to take a peak at it for you.

 

[typ4]

Ceramic sealer is good, not my first choice for the way our oil coolers are built. Find the leak before adding any stop leak, if it is a head crack bars leak , small amount first. The diagnosis process is simple but time consuming. I wouldnt put a pump or injectors in it till the problem is found. Although you might find the watering cylinder by pulling the injectors and looking at them.

Too many variables to just guess.
And "low Compression" without testing, wish I was a Clairvoyant mechanic, could make tons of money.

 

[icanfixall]

Sometimes the reason we loose coolant and the recovery tank stays full is the line is plugged or its not making a good seal on the radiater neck. The pressure will push coolant out of the rad but if the suction is broken it can't suck it back. So it sucks in air. I watched this with my engine once many years ago. A new recovery hose solved that problem. Many reasons are possible for blowby. Valve seals or valves guides are a couple. Worn rings are not high on the list of possibles. And nobody can look at the engine and tell you the rings are bad. Removing the CDR so there is no more smoke tells us something. But that has to be working or the crankcase will over pressurize and force oil past the crank seals.. Since the head or heads were removed tells us matbe some prep work was missed or dirt was in the head bolt threads in the block. Cracked heads or warped heads is only a guess at this time. Nothing is a concrete problem yet so we should not be going that way till we know whats wrong. But guessing is what all of us are doing. More investigation is needed to really know whats wrong and whats not wrong. If the engine locks up when you try to start it that will tell you that coolant is entering a cylinder. But it wont tell you why or what cylinder. These heads are flat with no gasser type combustion chamber. They have about 44 thousands clearance betwen the piston and the head at tdc. So no room for coolant. Adding the suggested sealers is a way to help the engine line some but its not going to "repair" anything. I know the town you live in and its kinda small... But not as small as Polebridge.. Been there many years ago too when the phone number in the mercantile store was... Polebridge number 2.

 

[Kalashnikov]

FYI the Alumaseal I used had no warning about the block heater and hasn't killed it.

 

[GOOSE]

I highly recommend to anybody who is contemplating on repairing or purchasing an IDI to spend the $130 for a quality diesel compression tester, not the Harbor Freight POS that does NOT have the right threads for our GP ports, and run down all eight cylinders with it. My first engine had 360-400psi on seven cylinders, the eighth was at 240. Inspecting the glow plugs as they come out can lead to helpful information as well. The bad cylinder had rust all over the glowplug when I pulled it to fit the comp tester. It was the same cylinder that had a 2" crack down the wall. My truck would hydro lock when it sat for a few hours but ran rather well otherwise. If you are not experiencing the hydrolock symptoms I would concentrate more on the heads.

I am not saying your engine is cracked, I am merely sharing my experience and recommending that a compression check may bring you closer to pinpointing the problem and help you to determine what path you want to go with.

The smoke is also key in pinpointing your ailment. Keep us posted and good luck with your rig.

 

[racer30]

Still need to know the color of smoke before we can start pointing fingers at everything under the sun....He didn't say its missing or anything like that so I don't think its cavitated yet, he only says the cooling system stays pressurized, not venting into the tank. I feel he has stuck rings and or worn valve guide's both will cause more blow by in a turbocharged engine. This will increase exhaust gasses in the air intake from the CDR displacing oxygen that needs to be there for complete combustion of the fuel in the next cumbustion cycle. This will cause smoke and low power and feed the same problem of carbon build up in the oil and the rings will cook that into place all over again. Must have a compression check done first. If the compression is low but fairly even could be stuck rings. Old trick for stuck rings.....You need to bring engine to full temp... Disconect cdr from intake.... Have a large CO2 extinguisher and a pump sprayer with water handy.... disconect air filter hose from the turbo..... Mix 2 quarts atf with 2 quarts diesel 1 can seafoam.... Put mixture into oil fill and start engine run at 1500 to 2000 RPM for 5 min.... shut off engine be ready for engine to run on or try to stay running from its own oil/flush mixture....When engine is off drain oil let sit as long as you can 12 to 24 hr is best... replace filter fill with cheep oil start and run to temp... keep safety stuff handy.... shut down change oil and filter again with what you normaly run and re-assemble air intake sytem. If that dosen't loosen up the rings start looking for a engine to rebuild....That is cheeper than pulling it down to look at it and it can be done on a weekend. Just my 2 cents...

 

[79jasper]

Racer30
So the auto rx stuff wouldn't work for what you described??

 

[racer30]

Yes any carbon cleaning product will work, ATF is verry high in detergent and has a sovent effect on carbon and oil sludge along with the seafoam or RX stuff, I have always used seafoam on Gas engines for carbon. We use a product called C4 to spray into the intake of running generators slowly at first then drown it and kill the engine at the same time, Then restart after some 1 hour or so then bring to temp and change the oil and filter, It is the recomended de-carbon the engines. This treatment I discused in the previous post is what My father inlaw would do to tractor's and dozers when they came in with Hard start -low compression symptoms. It should only be tried by someone that understands the risk of runaway and disconects the crank case breather first. The only way it can fuel itself would be from past the rings themselves. And if there that bad you need a rebuild anyway so if it trys to keep running spray CO2 into the turbo untill it stops rotating completly. If your real good you can spray water into the intake when you are running at 1500 rpm this has a cleaning effect too. If you fear this process, You are smart, It's still cheeper to do this than pull it down. Both my Turbo engines had black goo in the intake runners and on the back of the intake valves, It looked and felt like roofing tar. this is from the Not so good CDR system used on this engine when factory turbocharged. Again just my 2 cents.

 

[Black dawg]

I did a test one time. Had a very carboned/sludged up motor apart and wanted to see what different oils would do to these pieces of sludge and carbon. I had delo 15/40 diesel oil, 10/40 gasser oil, and atf. I put a piece of the soft sludge into each of the 3 oils, and a piece of hardened stuff into 3 other samples of the oils.

Within 10 minutes the delo showed signs of disolving the soft sludge, and after 1 day, the sludge was mostly dissolved.
the Hard stuff showed a little sign of being dissolved, but no change after several days.

the gasser oil was very similar in results to the delo 15/40, just not as much dissolving was done.

The atf did almost nothing, even after several days.

this was all done with no heat (80deg ambient) and no agitation of the oils.

makes it hard for me to believe that atf is as high of deterent as everybody claims.

 

[PwrSmoke]

I did a test one time. Had a very carboned/sludged up motor apart and wanted to see what different oils would do to these pieces of sludge and carbon. I had delo 15/40 diesel oil, 10/40 gasser oil, and atf. I put a piece of the soft sludge into each of the 3 oils, and a piece of hardened stuff into 3 other samples of the oils.

Within 10 minutes the delo showed signs of disolving the soft sludge, and after 1 day, the sludge was mostly dissolved.
the Hard stuff showed a little sign of being dissolved, but no change after several days.

the gasser oil was very similar in results to the delo 15/40, just not as much dissolving was done.

The atf did almost nothing, even after several days.

this was all done with no heat (80deg ambient) and no agitation of the oils.

makes it hard for me to believe that atf is as high of deterent as everybody claims.

It isn't. An AT is a closed environment and needs minimal detergents because there are minimal chemical reactions in there vs an engine that has to deal with blowby full of all sorts of noxious and chemically reactive junk, dirt ingress and moisture. If you look at the detergent additives in ATF vs those of motor oil, you will see considerably fewer in the ATF.

But to get back on point.... Nitroguy, you're in a pickle. If you were more wrench savvy, this would be easy but since you are relying on someone you have to pay, and whose opinions you are forced to trust, it's trickier. No fun.

All of us here, being wherever we are, can do little more than make WAGs.

I put my money on where it was worked on last... the heads and gaskets. That goes back to the mechanic that sold you the truck. A nice paintjob on the engine isn't necessarily an indicator that he did a good job. We don't know how bad the previous head gasket situation was. Did he double check the head for true, check for cracks, look for fretting on the head or block and surface either? Or did he just toss on gaskets or concob it enough to get it outta town, minimize his expenses and maximize his profit. We know none of that. What we do know is that he did head gaskets and now the engine has a coolant addiction.

I agree, with many above that your coolant loss is job one. Find out where it's going. If it's a cavitation thing, doesn't it most often dribble into the crankcase? If so, that would definitely show up in the oil PDQ in the form an oil level that rises, white goo in the oil filler, dipstick tube and valve covers and maybe even visible coolant. You could take an oil sample and send it off for analysis (google Blackstone Labs, Ft Wayne, Indiana). That would tell you if significant coolant is getting into the oil. Do that before you add the Bars Leaks or Alumaseal. Which by the way, is a good idea, along with testing and/or replacing the radiator cap and overflow hose. May not be a permanent fix but it might be just enough.

Also look carefully for coolant coming out of the bellhousing or dribbling down the block. My 6.9L dribbled coolant down the block (at the corners) for years. It turned out it was a common issue that Ford often addressed under warranty when the trucks were still pretty new. My truck was out of warranty by only a couple of months when I got it, so I finally had to address it on my dime with new gaskets in the '90s

I really think you need to get to the bottom of this problem before you start investing in injection stuff. If it turns out to be seriously engine related, you can probably address all the other problems at the same time. Best of luck on this!

 

[nitroguy]

Hey guys. Sorry for the delayed response. In my profession Sundays (and the beginning of the week) are quite busy. But don't think I haven't been reading and dissecting all your awesome help! Let's see if I can answer any questions:

Regarding the low compression: I agree it seemed odd, that's why I mentioned it. I think he was extrapolating out from the "observed significant blowby as evidenced by smoke puffing out the dipstick".

Regarding the coolant leak: He did an overnight pressure test and didn't find a single drop on the ground. I suppose it could have pooled on something, but I haven't noticed coolant under the truck at all.
So that leads me to think it's a coolant leak into the cylinder, but some have said if that's true it'd hydrolock. I'm not experiencing that. It starts right up in all weather (I usually plug it in below 32F just to make starting a bit easier). So does that mean it's only getting into the combustion chamber when it's running? Does that (further) point to head gasket?

Yes, I agree with the overall consensus that is stinks that I can't do the work myself. As a former Mechanical Engineer it kills me. But with it being 16 degrees outside, and new job, that just 'aint happening.

Smoke. That seems to be the thing that everyone needs to know. Here goes my best description: White with a tint of blue. When it's snowy outside, I can hardly tell it's smoking. Until the person behind me comes closer and their headlights illuminate a huge plume. Hint of blue when the lights are shined on it. How much? Enough to envelop a car next to me at 2 minutes at a stoplight. It's worse the colder it gets, but definitely still around (hit 40 today and still smoking). Here's an older pic at idle:

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More smoke info: when I put it in neutral and gas it, it rolls deep dark smoke. Similar smoke when it doesn't kick down a gear and I go up a hill. I'm thinking that's normal for a diesel (I kinda like it...). Another weird thing, is it smokes really bad at idle. Increases in quantity up through about 1/4, maybe even 1/2 throttle. But when I put my foot in it, smoke goes away. That seems odd, so thought it might help.

I've checked the dipstick, there's no milkyness to it (I submarine'd my dirt bike a couple times, I definitely know the milky). There is some oil residue in the recovery bottle, but I'm attributing that to a poor flush after the head gaskets were replaced. Doesn't seem to be increasing in oil content in the recovery bottle.

I did run two tanks with a can each of SeaFoam in it. Seemed to help maybe a bit after the first one, but it came back and still there through the second tank. Thinking of picking up some AutoRX (but that stuff is spendy! Worth it if it works though I suppose...)

Thanks for all the tips guys. Keep them coming! I want to get to the bottom of this!

 

[towcat]

with the latest info provided, i'm leaning towards the pump and injectors. how is the idle? smooth or rough? does it clear up when you bring up the rpms or does it get worse?

 

[Black dawg]

Does sound like fuel system is causing the smoke, but it would be nice to know where the coolant is going.

 

[justinray]

Could be fuel system smoke and a faulty radiator cap?