Getting harder to start. Slow cranks then faster cranks.

[Selahdoor]

Got er done!

New starter turns it over much faster. First start, cold start. Batteries were not fully charged. Ran the GPs for the normal cycle. BAM! Started right up. Less than a quarter of the time it normally takes. (Even BEFORE the old starter began to go bad.)

Could NOT get that top bolt started in there, for the life of me.

Took the starter back out to figure out why.

Turned out the body and the flange right there are shaped in such a way that you can't get the bolt started using a long socket.

And you can only get it started with a short socket, if the head of the extension is a flex type. (Not universal joint type. I am talking about the kind where the socket literally wobbles on the extension.)

I had to tape a short socket to the bolt. Put that in the flange. Then stick a flex type extension into the socket. And tape the extension to the body of the starter, to hold it in place.

Lifted it up into place. Put in the bottom bolts and tightened those enough to bring the flange up flush with the engine/trans plate. Then still took me 20 minutes of finagling to get that bolt started and then tightened.

When I took the old starter off, that top bolt was finger loose. But I never had a problem with that. So I don't figure it is all that important.

I put some blue locktight on the bolts, but after all the problems and finagling I don't figure any of it survived.

Give me some time and I'll post a comparo pic of the starters. And MAYBE before and after videos.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Now you're a believer in these starters too. I'll bet that you NEVER go back to any other style. As for the cranking speed, I think they sound more like a motorcycle starter than an automotive starter.

 

[ROCK HARVEY]

Well you’ve definitely convinced me to put a stud in place of that top bolt when I do my starter this weekend!

 

[Selahdoor]

Ok, I can kind of see that conclusion.

Howsomever...

If I had had a stud in there, I STILL would have had a lot of trouble, trying to get a nut up into that area, and started onto the stud.

You can't see it, whatever. And at least with this particular starter, the body of the starter bulges in just the right way, to make you have to kind of turn a corner at the last minute, to get the nut on, or the bolt in.

 

[Big Bart]

Congrats on getting it in! It should last many years, Powermaster makes great products!

 

[Cubey]

Maybe I just have an unusually good Mitsu starter but mine spins pretty fast and starts easily, assuming there's no air intrusion.

The mysterious air intrusion I had this summer when parked up hill has gone away somehow. Here is a video I recorded in August trying to catch it on video, but it actually started fine.

New video by Ben

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[chillman88]

Could NOT get that top bolt started in there, for the life of me.

Took the starter back out to figure out why.

Turned out the body and the flange right there are shaped in such a way that you can't get the bolt started using a long socket.

I got really lucky on that one. My buddy has been using the dually for running around town since he's out a vehicle at the moment. The clutch seems to be working ok empty for short trips.

I dropped the starter off and he put it in (old one finally gave up for good). Saved me the headache! But I did get a few choice words about that top bolt

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Although I have had issues with the top bolt, I usually don't. I hang the starter from the two lower bolts so I don't have to hole it up. Then I hold the bolt between my index and middle fingers. I reach up on the out board side of the starter and hold the bolt about where it needs to go. Then I reach in from the front of the starter with the tools to tighten the bolt and push the bolt back into the hole it goes in. I didn't say that it's easy, but that usually works for me.

 

[Selahdoor]

I actually tried that. I couldn't get my hand or fingers up into that area to do that.

This is the kind of wobble extension I am talking about. Mine is a longer extension, but the same thing.

You must be registered for see images attach

Even my shortest universal joint type extension would not fit in the area between the flange and the body of the starter.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

You're right. The universals won't fit.

 

[Selahdoor]

Here is a pic of the starters side by side, for a comparison:

You must be registered for see images attach

Here is a video of what it was like before replacing the starter:

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And here it is after I installed the starter:

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[CBRF3]

Thank you to all.

I guess I am leaning toward it being the starter.

That grinding noise during the times when it is really slow to turn over just had/has me worried that there is a problem in the engine, instead. After startup, if you stand on the passenger side, it is pretty obvious that there is some rod knock at the back of the engine, as well. That tends to smooth out and almost go away after it warms up.

As I said earlier, though... I would have expected the problem to be consistent throughout the startup, if it was the starter. (And get worse, if it was the batteries or electrical system.)


More data: Once the tuck is warm, as in once I drive 40 miles to town... When I come back out from a store and go to start it, it turns over quickly for a few revolutions. Then goes back into that slow turnover for a bit, before slowly starting to turn over fast again, and start. It does this for every warm start, after that. All day. Then back to the slow beginning, when cold.

You might want to check your injectors for spray / pop if any dribble or pop earlier this will give those cylinders a knock sound because it essentially makes that cylinder fire earlier bumping that cylinders timing up making that cylinder rattle like crazy compared to the others. A rod knock in our motors doesn't just go away upon warm up we have way to much compression if got rod knock you got rod knock thru entire cold to warm cycle and for entire time your running the motor if its doing what you say I bet 1 or more injectors are popping early causing that rattle and as it warms up the injector seals better or is silenced after the timing advance on injection pump has kicked off. A 250-275 psi pop variance on our injectors is around 4-6 degrees of advance on the low injector and add the pump advancing well those cylinders would be way over advanced making for alot of knock / rattle.

 

[snicklas]

Well, not an apples to apples comparison… but I think you just showed me the factory (2003, 172,000 mile) starter on my 6.0 is getting tired. It does something similar…. Guess I need to place an order….. can’t be too mad at it….

 

[Selahdoor]

That knock noise is getting worse. And doesn't go away at warmup any more. The unbalanced running is also getting worse and doesn't go away after warmup.

Thank you VERY much for the advice about the injectors. That makes a lot of sense. Cracking the injectors will certainly show the bad one or more of them! When I go through and crack the injectors, I'll try to do it before it warms up, to get the best results.


I'm glad I could help, @snicklas! The video showed the behavior better than I was able to describe it. And yeah, few people would consider that to be the starter having trouble. Most would assume the batteries, cables, or charging system was the problem.

 

[CBRF3]

That knock noise is getting worse. And doesn't go away at warmup any more. The unbalanced running is also getting worse and doesn't go away after warmup.

Thank you VERY much for the advice about the injectors. That makes a lot of sense. Cracking the injectors will certainly show the bad one or more of them! When I go through and crack the injectors, I'll try to do it before it warms up, to get the best results.


I'm glad I could help, @snicklas! The video showed the behavior better than I was able to describe it. And yeah, few people would consider that to be the starter having trouble. Most would assume the batteries, cables, or charging system was the problem.

if run it to long with bad injectors can wash the cylinder walls down and lose compression on those cylinders along with alot of other nasty stuff cost is much cheaper than buying a motor you need to remove the injectors and pop test them. A pop tester is around $100 and injector seal washers are cheap a few dollars add the return line Orings again cheap the only real expense is the pop testers initial cost after that all you need is injector seal washers and return line Orings if are carefull. Oh and you should pop test your injectors every 100k miles or so and if are out of spec can shim them and clean them and then are good I have injectors I have done this with like 4-5 times with a cost of like $10 in parts and I always have a spare set of injectors set ready to go.

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