Front Driveline Angle question...

[ttman4]

So when I put my Dana 60 Kingpin axle in this '90 CC Dually, ZF5 w/1356 transfer case. I got everything under it, carried it to the local alignment shop & had it cked. Little bit of toe-in tweaking & everything else cked out well within tolerance & specs. Camber, caster, etc, etc. This thing steers & holds the road very good, plenty good.

Now my question: What angle is the max allowable angle on my front driveline at the u-joints? Recently I measured my front u-joint angle at the pumpkin with my angle finder. It was about 13* & looked very close as it turned.

When I lock my hubs in & go in 2 wheel drive this thing has a slight/medium howl. Same howl if I shift the stick into 4 Hi WITHOUT the hubs locked in. And the same howl in 4 wheel drive with hubs locked in. Not a loud scream howl, but I definitely can hear it. Without hubs locked in but stick in 4 Hi going down the road I can shift to 2Hi & it quiets down.

Right now with this nasty snowy weather we're having I need the 4x4 drive. Soon as weather breaks I'm going to pull my front drive line & start cking things thru process of elimination.

In '04-'05 I took some classes at local Jr College, Tranny, rear-ends, etc. We studied drivelines & angles. IIRC about 7* was about the max angle on the regular driveline in a vehicle, but I don't remember for sure.

I hope I've explained this well enough.

 

[austin92]

I would guess that the howling is out of the transfer case. Ujoints can handle a lot more than 7*. Most can handle 15-20* depending on size. Since 1410s are wider than the 1330 and 1350s we use they can run at like 30 some odd degrees. One thing I’ve never understood on these d60 trucks is since there is a double Cardon joint at the t case, why is the pinion yoke parallel to the t case output? It should be pointing up with 1-2* angle off the driveshaft. But still it wouldn’t howl, it’d vibrate. I highly doubt that angle is causing the noise you’re concerned about. I’d flush the t case and fill with some high quality full syn atf and see if that changes the noise


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[Black dawg]

cv at t case? or 2 joint shaft?

 

[ttman4]

cv at t case? or 2 joint shaft?

2 joint shaft.

Coming from my T Case it's male slip joint. Female slip joint side is on drive shaft end, then u joint.

I pulled this set-up from my '89 F250 parts truck. Pulled the ZF5 & t case & drive shaft from the '89. Had to get drive line reworked (shortened) when I stuck it in with this D60

Talked to local driveline place here & they quoted approx $375 to add CV, labor, & bal

 

[Black dawg]

2 joint shaft.

Coming from my T Case it's male slip joint. Female slip joint side is on drive shaft end, then u joint.

I pulled this set-up from my '89 F250 parts truck. Pulled the ZF5 & t case & drive shaft from the '89. Had to get drive line reworked (shortened) when I stuck it in with this D60

Talked to local driveline place here & they quoted approx $375 to add CV, labor, & bal

Angle at t case and at differential should match....what is the angle at the t case?

 

[subway]

Angle at t case and at differential should match....what is the angle at the t case?

if it is not a CV joint. if he is going CV joint then the front axle pinion should shoot straight at the transfercase.

your drive line angles do not sound extreme at all. are you sure you don't want to just run it and when you need 4x4 you get some drive line noise. as long as it is not shaking you down.

 

[ttman4]

Angle at t case and at differential should match....what is the angle at the t case?

I don't know. I need to ck with my angle thingie & it'll be a few days with all this nasty weather we got. Right now I can't even get in my shop I have rented up town

 

[franklin2]

If you put that cv shaft in there, it will solve your problems. I have a f250 with a 4 inch lift and it always had a vibration since I bought it. Had a chance to change transfer cases, wasn't that. Noticed the front shaft seemed a little bit extended with the lift, so had a new shaft made a couple inches longer. That helped but still had most of the vibration.

Ran across a Ford TSB. Some of the f250's with regular 2 joint shafts were having vibration problems. The TSB said to install the f350 setup, which uses the double cardan joint at the transfer case. All the dana 60 equipped trucks had this double cardan shaft.

So I got a driveshaft off ebay, but found it would not fit at the transfer case. Found out you need a different yoke bolted to the tcase. Found one of those in a junkyard in New York (these are getting hard to find), bolted it all in and it is so smooth, I sometimes forget and leave the hubs locked in. I will finally notice something a little different, and remember I have the hubs locked in.

P.S. I left the front pumpkin pointed the way it was. I just had the frontend aligned, I don't want to open that can of worms again. Re-positioning the pumpkin will mess your frontend alignment up and you will have to take it back to the shop.

 

[Black dawg]

Unless your really lucky, the angles are going to be pretty bad, wont be great with a cv, but atleast then you are dealing with just one angle. Ideal is 1 degree through joint at front diff with a cv at rear of shaft, but up to 2.5 seems to be ok.

With a cv driveshaft, pinion should be very nearly same angle as driveshaft.

 

[ttman4]

I'm not very savy when it comes to 4x4 rigs but I now love them. First 4x4 I was ever round was my '70 Jeep J4000 & my '92 F250.
When it comes to 4x4 stuff I'm still learning.

If I understand things right, if I put a CV joint in I'd have to change the set-up coming out of my 1356 t-case??? Then I'd have the CV jt at top end coming out of the t-case??

I also don't know what u-joint #'s I have now. This thing performs great when in gear etc, just howls. I also been taking it easy, don't hotrod round,. I just don't want to sling a driveline when it's needed!!

EDIT: This thing don't vibrate or rattle, just howls when hubs are locked in, when stick is in 4hi, or both.

 

[Black dawg]

with the cv driveshaft a different yoke is needed at the t case. cv isn't always a cure all though. Being lifted the pinion will need to be rotated up to get it perfect. Unless you can cut and turn the front diff, front driveshaft angles are always a compromise.

 

[hce]

More then likely not driveshaft angle related, as this would cause vibration. I would be suspicious of bearings on the pinion, carrier and possible transfer case. Could be the ring and pinion wore or incorrectly set up. Pull the front end cover and take a look.

 

[franklin2]

More then likely not driveshaft angle related, as this would cause vibration. I would be suspicious of bearings on the pinion, carrier and possible transfer case. Could be the ring and pinion wore or incorrectly set up. Pull the front end cover and take a look.

I agree, howling would not be the driveshaft I wouldn't think. Have you check the oil level in the front diff?

The cv driveshaft cured a terrible vibration in my truck. I could not drive it with the hubs locked in and the transfer case in 2wd. The only way I could use 4x4 was to lock the hubs in and the transfer case. Then if I pressed on the throttle, it wasn't too bad. If I let off the throttle it was not too bad. But the transition between throttle and no throttle was terrible and shook the whole truck.