Extreme Newbee Help requested

bjharfy

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First time diesel owner of a 01 Dodge 5.9L 24V 2WD 130K that is at the garage.

My Boy died on me at the gas pump yesterday; luckily a member tried to help me out and gave me a lift home.

The Lift pump was replaced a month ago. Yesterday died and acted the same; had it towed to a shop. Shop said the lift pump was bad and Injector Pump needed replacing. No charge for Lift Pump and Injector Pump ws $2000.00 and that is only with $150.00 in labor?????

Are they screwing me?? I heard that it is very early for the the injector pump to be going out. Shop said it was because of the Lift pump going out and the new fuel that is being sold these days with a lack of lubercation (less sulfer)????

I am in SA Texas and could use some advise. I cant even find anyone to confirm the price of this part after 5 pm??
 

J.Keith

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You may very well have a bad injection pump. It's a very common problem on the 24 valve ISB Cummins. You should be able to get a new one for around $1500 or so. Maybe less if you shop around. $150 to change it is a damn good price.
Get a fuel pressure gauge on that thing so that you can tell if/when your lift pump dies.

Also if theres any way that you could get the ecm codes for us we will be able to be a little more sure that it is the injection pump.

Good luck and do keep us posted!

Joe
 

bjharfy

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Thanks for the help Joe and I will try to get more info on the pressure and ecm codes...more to come and thanks again
BH
 

bjharfy

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Joe I just got off the phone with the shop and they said the ECM codes were PO216 failure and the pressure was 15 @ filter & 15 @ pump. I asked him about a rebuilt one to lower the price and Then he said he was going to chech the price his assistant quoted me and get back with me. Dont get me wrong I dont have any reason to question the integrity of these folks and they have been nothing but cooperative with us.
Interesting though, they said the cause of the failure was when the fuel pump went out and the idea of bad gas. Anymore insight you can throw my way would help.

Thanks again

BH
 

J.Keith

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Sure, well the typical cause of injection pump failure in these trucks is usally low fuel pressure from the lift pump.
The lift pump in itself isn't a horrible pump but I really don't think it's up to the task of providing an adiquate fuel supply to the injection pump. Sure they work fine when they are new but it usally dosn't take too long to before they start to lose pressure and the flow rates decrease.
The VP44 injection pump relies on the fuel to lubricate and cool the pump. So obiously when your lift pump dies or is under performing it can and will speed the demise of the VP44.

That being said, there are trucks that have great fuel pressure and still lose the VP44. I think that what happens is that after shutdown, with the loss of fuel flow through the pump to keep it cool, the heat transfer from the engine causes that pump to get hotter than it should get. And then the connections and other electronic stuff in the VP44 starts to eventually, over a long period of heat cycles gets damaged to the point where you will start having intermittent problems either with starting when hot, loss of power while cruising, all kinds of stuff.

Other things I've heard about that commenly goes bad is the timing piston will stick. I guess that that is from poor fuel pressure and lubrication.

I'm not really an expert on this by any means and most of the stuff I just spouted is just stuff I remember from hours of reading about this injection pump on a whole bunch of websites.
I do know that the P0216 code is pretty much the death warrant for the pump. I thinks there has been some with that code that have traced the problem to another source but the majoirity of the time it's the VP44. And with the other symptoms that you described I'm pretty sure that you need a new one. 130K miles is not bad at all. Some guys don't even get half that many miles before replacing the VP44.
A couple of things you may want to consider for the future. I would suggest getting a fuel pressure gauge permantly installed in the cab where you can moniter the fuel pressure easily. They can be had for around $250 for a good one and I think deffinalty worth it. Just don't get a mechanical one unless you also get an isolater. You don't want to be running fuel into the cab.
I would consider putting a aftermarket lift pump on your truck. You'll soon pay for it if you keep putting stock LP's on it. I would get a FASS system myself, however others have had good luck with lots of different pumps.
I use a FASS on my 2000 and I've never had a bit of trouble with it. Almost 30k miles on it and still like new.
I use a stock lift pump on my 1998 with a Vulcan relocation kit. This kit mounts the stock LP back on the frame rail just in front of the tank. It also includes bigger fuel supply lines and high flow fittings for the connections at the fuel filter and injection pump. So far its been working fine and I have anbout 20k miles on it.

Gosh this turned into a freakin epistle but I hope maybe this will give oyu some ideas and tips and stuff.
If you have anymore questions feel free to ask. I'll do my best!!!

Good luck man!
Joe
 

holtzer1

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ouch injection pump timing failure...had the same one on my 01 cummins with less than 60k on the clock. replaced a buddy of mine's at 80k. that truck did good with 130k.
 

justinp20012500

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http://cumminsstuff.com/index.htm

You can buy VP's here for 1000-1100 bucks. Labor to do a VP is 1.5 hours, so 150 is about right.

When you replace these things for a living a guy can do on in 45 minutes to 1 hour.


The injection pump will kick the bucket whenever it feels like it. Some die with only 30k and good fuel pressure, some die with 200k and a dead LP. It's really just a crap shoot.
 

Mopar1973Man

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J.Keith is right...

You need to mount a permanent fuel pressure gauge in the cab of your truck. I've seen 3 pumps now fail before my eyes just by watching the fuel pressure fall.

As for the P0216 code. Yea its a sure sign that the VP44 has seen too much heat cycles or not enough fuel pressure/volume.
 
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