Engine seems to have a miss

[Mulochico]

Ok,

Fix one thing find another. Gonna give the whole story, so bear with it please.

Got my baby moose and injectors in, ran great 1-2 days. Had an issue timing it. My battery was going bad on the Ferret meter and the reading was off. Seems it was at 12+ deg btdc at 1st. Only ran it for about 20-30 miles (needed to go to work a few days). Got the meter sorted out, timed it to 8.5-9 deg btdc. Runs good, just heard what sounds like a miss, especially when cold. Found that the exhaust manifold was leaking (had an old jeep 4 cyl that had a leaking exh man that sounded like a miss before). Got new manifold gaskets on. It is quieter, but still sounds like a miss.

The truck runs pretty good, but you figure until I put the baby moose in the system had about 191,000 miles on it, don't have a good baseline feel. The sound gets better (never goes completely away) as the engine warms up. More smoke than normal when cold, almost, if not completely goes away when warm (except when I am heavy footed). Cold grayish, heavy foot, black.

Thinking injector (all new), compression (need recommendations on a good gauge), or something worse (hope not). I am looking for ideas what is most probable, easiest to check out, etc.

BTW: I have heard that the copper washers on the injectors are single use, I had to loosen and re-tighten one of the injectors when installing them, possible compression leak? If so, I will redo all of them. Been working on wife's and daughters vehicles, so I am a little behind in the Ford.

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[icanfixall]

Hard to say what your hearing and feeling but.. A copper gasket is one use... Now if that gasket was not heated up and cooled down several times it will be fine... Copper work hardens with use but they can be annealed by heating them up till blue. then quenching them in cold water. Buff them looking for any lines from the sealing. File out any found with a smooth 12 inch file.. So Maybe its another manifold gasket leak too. Drive it for a couple hundred miles. Look for black soot marks around the manifolds. Those are tell tail leaks... See, Soot is a good thing sometimes...

 

[Kalashnikov]

Cracks on manifold usually turn white and seem to be pretty common. My 93 turbo has it around 190kish miles and my 89 N/A has it around 238k miles. You really shouldn't notice much of a difference in power though unless it is a turbo.

Seems like cracked manifolds are common on diesels. The 24v I use to drive for work had it right in the middle of the manifold too@ 180kish miles and the 95 PSD with 260k miles I just got sound like it's got one too.

 

[Mulochico]

Cracks on manifold usually turn white and seem to be pretty common. My 93 turbo has it around 190kish miles and my 89 N/A has it around 238k miles. You really shouldn't notice much of a difference in power though unless it is a turbo.

Seems like cracked manifolds are common on diesels. The 24v I use to drive for work had it right in the middle of the manifold too@ 180kish miles and the 95 PSD with 260k miles I just got sound like it's got one too.

Didn't see any cracks when I had the manifolds off. Gaskets were leaking to some extent on at least 6 cylinders though. Have to look closer at the manifolds. I was told on the Jeep it could cause potential damage to run it to long with a crack in the exhaust manifold. Any truth to that on these motors?

 

[Kalashnikov]

Well if the Heep has EFI, leaking manifolds would cause the O2s to read lean and dump excess fuel. Overtime I guess it could cause some wear but I know someone that's been running a 454 with leaking manifolds/exhaust for who knows how long pushing close to 400k miles. And this is a 3/4mpg type of rich!

I can't see how it could hurt an IDI.

 

[homelessduck]

Sorry to hear that Alan. If you end up needing exhaust manifolds let me know, I have a pair you can have .

 

[Mulochico]

Well if the Heep has EFI, leaking manifolds would cause the O2s to read lean and dump excess fuel. Overtime I guess it could cause some wear but I know someone that's been running a 454 with leaking manifolds/exhaust for who knows how long pushing close to 400k miles. And this is a 3/4mpg type of rich!

I can't see how it could hurt an IDI.

Thanks, That's what I thought, but wasn't sure.

 

[towcat]

Didn't see any cracks when I had the manifolds off. Gaskets were leaking to some extent on at least 6 cylinders though. Have to look closer at the manifolds. I was told on the Jeep it could cause potential damage to run it to long with a crack in the exhaust manifold. Any truth to that on these motors?

if your heep has a 4.0, the exh manifold is a self-destruct item. every single one I am forced to care for cracks the exh manifold at 100k/miles on the ODO or sooner if the heep has gone swimming.
Our IDI manifolds are scarey thin on material to begin with. warping is common.
the copper injector gaskets should not be reused if you put in replacement injectors.
dumb question, you did put in a new fuel filter when you put in the new pump and injectors....right?

 

[icanfixall]

Good question about the fuel filter replacement when replacing the pump and injecters. Maybe Mel should add that to the pump instructions so everyone gets the info of how to change the pumps and injecters. It sure can't hurt changing the filter...

 

[blackflag]

Okay, not to ask a stupid question, but what's the importance of changing the fuel filter when doing IP and injectors? I realize the filter is an easy and inexpensive change to make but I just never heard that it was possibly needed when doing this type of work. Could it cause a fuel starvation issue? I just had my IP repalced (from Mel) and new injectors (from Russ) and the truck is having starting issues. It stared right up the first two days (no driving, just the shop starting it to make sure it would fire up fine), but now it wont hit a lick. Turns over fine, just won't fire. I suggested that they crack each injector line individually to make sure there was no air in any of them but past that I really don't know what to suggest. They did crack the number 7 line to bleed it but that was the only one they did. Any suggestions as to what else to look for? I'm not sure if it would be a timing issue since it started fine for two days and now all of a sudden it won't fire.

 

[icanfixall]

Sounds like an overlooked problem. So it started fine but now it wont hit... Have you checked for fuel to the filter and out of it yet. Might be a problem with low fuel in a tank that has the broken off suction head. Then the tank can't suck out the last 1/4 tank. You tun out of fuel then. And, when you refill that tank it takes around 12 gallons. Classic problem too but an easy fix. Next time you try to start it feel the main wireing harness plug. If it hot then you have a power problem to the glow plug solenoid. Pull apart the connection and clean the corrosion from the two yellow wires that feeds power to the controller. This too is a common problem. The plug is too small for the load asked of it. Any corrosion makes heat and that melts or in worse cases burns the wires causing a fire. Thats not good. Many have rewired the controller but be careful around these wires. They are hot all the time with power. Just follow the wires directly back to the battery if your not believeing this.. Same with the heavy lead from the alternater to the battery. Its also hot all the time too. Your problem sounds like no fuel so check why you might not be getting any fuel to the injection pump.

 

[blackflag]

Thank you, icanfixall, I will have them check for what you mentioned. I also told them to plug it in b/c I'm not sure if my gp controller is working properly or not. A previous owner installed a push button by pass on the dash and that's what I use to glow the plugs with but a wire going to the controller is frayed. With a bypass would the frayed wire even come into play? I do have 8 new Beru's installed as well. As for the shower head, I did fix the one in my rear tank but haven't checked the one in the front tank althoug I would imagine it needs attention as well. But, that being said, I'm pretty sure my fuel level in that tank is enough that even with the shower head missing it should still pick up based on the fuel level. But, I will check to make sure. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Greg5OH]

question about the copper injector washers. Are they approx 3/4" in dimater and sit near the tip of the injector by the pintle? im away from mine and dont remember

 

[Mulochico]

if your heep has a 4.0, the exh manifold is a self-destruct item. every single one I am forced to care for cracks the exh manifold at 100k/miles on the ODO or sooner if the heep has gone swimming.
Our IDI manifolds are scarey thin on material to begin with. warping is common.
the copper injector gaskets should not be reused if you put in replacement injectors.
dumb question, you did put in a new fuel filter when you put in the new pump and injectors....right?

The jeep had the 2.5 4 cyl. I wouldn't call it a heep myself because, while it is on it's 3rd exhaust manifold, it the guy who owns it told me it is at 305,000 miles, 1st clutch was done at 301,000. I had it for 14 yrs/235,000 miles. He has had it for 7 yrs. Still will pass ca smog. It was not thrashed, but definitely not babied. Good little Comanche p/u

As for the fuel filter on the 7.3, it only had 3,000 miles on it so I did not change it with the pump. I will probably re-install the injectors with new copper washers to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Knuckledragger]

question about the copper injector washers. Are they approx 3/4" in dimater and sit near the tip of the injector by the pintle? im away from mine and dont remember

Yup. They sit at the bottom of the injector hole in the head.