Previous difficult cold start > Now it seems like not getting fuel and won't start at all

Baxter

Registered User
Joined
Jan 8, 2023
Posts
34
Reaction score
2
Location
Georgetown
Thank you for the replies @IDIBRONCO so it's safe to say the timing will need to be advanced some? Is this a difficult operation for a fair to moderately skilled wrencher like myself, Is there is a good thread on here with instructions or should I look somewhere else...? Do you agree that other electrical switch behind the FSS power-in is not the culprit? you said it was a timing advance? just sounds like it might cause a cold start issue if inactive ... not to disbelieve James previous comments but just trying to understand ... Thanks.
 

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,515
Reaction score
11,305
Location
edmond, ks
Do you agree that other electrical switch behind the FSS power-in is not the culprit?
Yes. I'm pretty sure that it's not the problem.
you said it was a timing advance?
That's right.
just sounds like it might cause a cold start issue if inactive ... not to disbelieve James previous comments but just trying to understand ... Thanks.
I have no experience here. I've always had mine hooked up. I have seen more than one person mention that they didn't have it hooked up and had no issues starting cold.
so it's safe to say the timing will need to be advanced some? Is this a difficult operation for a fair to moderately skilled wrencher like myself,
I think yes. Advance the timing. No it's not difficult. It may seem intimidating to some. You don't really need a special wrench to adjust the timing. The difficult nut to get to is the one on the passenger's side. You can remove the fast idle solenoid, and the throttle/cruise control cables if you only have regular wrenches. It's more work, but not terribly difficult.
 

Baxter

Registered User
Joined
Jan 8, 2023
Posts
34
Reaction score
2
Location
Georgetown
Ok I may give it a shot @IDIBRONCO ... should I just youtube it to get the timing repair procedure down?

I promise I will not bring this up again but see in this picture what I think is what you call the fast idle solenoid, it has that brass pin that holds the throttle open a little when cold? that thing is wired straight to the timing advance switch on top of the FSS. It's that brass pin that isn't engaging anymore ever since I started this whole adventure. same time as the FSS lost it's power ... not important? thanks again!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3917 2.JPG
    IMG_3917 2.JPG
    527 KB · Views: 9

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,515
Reaction score
11,305
Location
edmond, ks
see in this picture what I think is what you call the fast idle solenoid, it has that brass pin that holds the throttle open a little when cold?
Yes that's it. The two throttle return springs are attached to the bottom of the mounting bracket. This is adjustable so if you remove it, it may not be in the same place when you put it back.
that thing is wired straight to the timing advance switch on top of the FSS.
Yes they are connected.
It's that brass pin that isn't engaging anymore ever since I started this whole adventure. same time as the FSS lost it's power .
Since this is your problem, it's probably the switch/sending unit that controls them. Either it's bad or it has a poor connection. This is the part that's located below the thermostat housing with the upper radiator hose attached. There's a two wire plug that plugs on top of the switch. If you remove the plug, there will be two prongs sticking up from the top of the switch.
Just for reference, I say "fast idle" while most others on here say "high idle". I don't know which is the correct term, but in the shop I used to work in, we said "fast idle" and I stick with it today. That was just for clarity.
 

Rdnck84_03

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Posts
1,174
Reaction score
1,269
Location
Kansas
This is the part that's located below the thermostat housing with the upper radiator hose attached. There's a two wire plug that plugs on top of the switch. If you remove the plug, there will be two prongs sticking up from the top of the switch.
A warning while adjusting the timing, the reason my fast idle and cold advance are on toggle switches is because I broke the sending unit while tighten the passenger side injector pump nut. And it was an added bonus that I can now control the fast idle.

James
 

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,515
Reaction score
11,305
Location
edmond, ks
A warning while adjusting the timing, the reason my fast idle and cold advance are on toggle switches is because I broke the sending unit while tighten the passenger side injector pump nut. And it was an added bonus that I can now control the fast idle.

James
His isn't working. I was letting him know where it is in case he wants to try to fix this. Maybe his sender is already bad.
 

Rdnck84_03

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Posts
1,174
Reaction score
1,269
Location
Kansas
His isn't working. I was letting him know where it is in case he wants to try to fix this. Maybe his sender is already bad.
I believe the reason his doesn't work is from the same wiring issue that is causing the FSS to not function with the key.

James
 

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,515
Reaction score
11,305
Location
edmond, ks
Right which makes me think that there is an issue with the sender. That's the most common issue when they both don't work since they both get their power through that sender/switch.
 

Rdnck84_03

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Posts
1,174
Reaction score
1,269
Location
Kansas
since they both get their power through that sender/switch.
Ok I need a little clarification on this one. Does the FSS and that temp switch share a common power wire?

And even if it does I don't understand how the switch being bad would cause the FSS wire to not have power. Mine still had power to the FSS after the top broke off of my switch.

James
 

Baxter

Registered User
Joined
Jan 8, 2023
Posts
34
Reaction score
2
Location
Georgetown
All noted here ... to be honest I wish I had a simple clear wiring diagram for this system, FSS power-in, timing advance switch and sending unit. I may need to re-wire all that stuff. And yes thanks James for the warning to watch it when loosening or tightening that tough passenger side bolt. Thank you both. I'll keep you posted.
 

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,515
Reaction score
11,305
Location
edmond, ks
Ok I need a little clarification on this one. Does the FSS and that temp switch share a common power wire?
No. The fast idle solenoid and the timing advance both share the same power wire. They are supposed to activate and deactivate at the same time.
And even if it does I don't understand how the switch being bad would cause the FSS wire to not have power.
See above
Mine still had power to the FSS after the top broke off of my switch.
See above
Right which makes me think that there is an issue with the sender.
I misread some of the above posts and I apologize for that confusion. I was thinking that the timing advance and the fast idle solenoid lost power at the same time. If the FSS and the timing advance are wired together, that is wrong. The timing advance would be active whenever the key in in the "on" position.
In the picture in post #33, the wiring looks to be both intact and factory. If Baxter was to cut the wiring loom open, there should be a wire for the FSS and a separate wire that goes to both the fast idle and the timing advance. It's hard to tell what's what when the factory wiring loom in in place.
 

Rdnck84_03

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Posts
1,174
Reaction score
1,269
Location
Kansas
@Baxter I think you probably need to find a wiring diagram and get whatever was cut spliced back together first thing. Then after all that is working correctly then try to diagnose what else is going on.

@IDIBRONCO i am thinking whatever wiring was cut during the cdd glow plug wiring install is the reason for all of the IP wiring being dead.


James
 

nelstomlinson

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Posts
1,167
Reaction score
757
Location
Delta Junction AK
I would give serious thought to putting a fuel shutoff switch on the dash, running a wire from the battery to it, then from the switch to the FSS. Flip the switch in the cab to turn on the fuel, flip it off when you're done. I like a pushbutton on the dash for the starter, too.
 

Baxter

Registered User
Joined
Jan 8, 2023
Posts
34
Reaction score
2
Location
Georgetown
Long time no post so here's an update! Took the truck to a shop here in Sacramento, Ken Imler's Performance Diesel. Very impressed with their knowledge of the older diesel light/med. duty trucks and fair not scamming for extra repairs etc..Ken has been there working day to day for over 25 years. Anyways this isn't really a business plug just letting you know who worked on it after me.. I had them time up the fuel pump. Said it was pretty far out of wack and advanced it as much as they could. Again the truck has always seemed to run smooth and strong but at least I know it's adjusted better now. They said I definitely need a new pump. AND that is probably the reason for hard cold starts. .. I'm still not sure why that is, if anyone here knows why...? He also fixed the FSS wiring and yea it was just buried in the loom and tied it back in properly.

I did put in a new set of glowplugs cuz they were testing a bit low and then did a test where I pulled one out and left it plugged into the wiring harness, then ran a ground wire to the threaded body of the gp. turned key on and switched on the gp system from inside the cab and had a buddy see if it glowed. He said yes it did get visibly red, so I'm assuming the relay and everything else is good.

In the meantime I have been using my block heater on a timer to basically keep the truck kinda warm over night (3hrs on and 4 off) it's been starting pretty normal in the mornings. Sometimes though it will start up quick and idle for about 3-5 seconds then die ...After that happens it takes forever to get the thing to fire up and I'm not sure why that is either? .. matter of fact a few days ago I couldn't get it to start at all and had to have it towed home from a friends house...

Is there any harm to never let the engine cool all the way off? other than wear and tear on the block heater element, which who knows how long it's been installed, whether it's the stock unit or was replaced along the way sometime. It makes an audible noise when it's on which is cool because I knew it was doing something when I plugged it in for the first time.
 
Top