Best Turbocharging Options for IDI's

[03wr250f]

Hypermax
Pros: still sold. Great instructions, easy to get parts, better for puling (non-gated), Easy to install, Good customer service, Cheaper parts and parts really don’t go bad. Lots of Oilburners members said if they had to do it again would choose Hypermax over the others because of better customer service and availability, Better pyrometer mount location then banks
Cons: Exhaust $350 more, some don’t like longer up pipes. Longer up pipes create more turbo lag. No gauges.
Cost $2865 ($2290 (subject to change from mel)


ATS 093 & 088
Pros: Easy to get parts, well liked and recommended by OBN users, Aftermarket had better flowing exhaust side over OEM turbos, Not much goes wrong, Cheaper Parts
Cons: not made anymore, ATS bad customer service
Cost ?
Side Note: Aftermarket 093 Has better flowing exhaust side than factory turbo


Banks
Pros: Still available, V-band Connections, Fastest Spool,
Cons: Parts are hard to find unless you have specific part numbers for Japan. Hard to install. Bad pyrometer mounting location.
Cost: $2700 manual
$3100 auto

Mel (Agnem)
Moose boost
Pros Another addition to moose line. Ball bearing turbo
Cons:
Cost: $1623.75 for the turbo, The Hypermax platform needed to run it is about another grand.

Typ4 (Russ)
I have some factory ford setups available with new castings, and almost every part to do a kit, it would be ats style, wastegated. turbo repair parts are easy to source. I dont have crossovers yet, trying to get some made, I could sell 10 or so and would do mandrel bent ones but no one wants to prepay and I cant foot the bill at this time. I could do you a almost complete kit for TBD with a rebuilt turbo. You would need the Banks downpipe for factory turbo and a good exhaust shop could easily make a crossover but they need IDI exhaust flanges, they are unique.
Also available with an upgrade compressor wheel

R&d ceramic turbo coated
BW S256 with a .85 T3 pattern divided exhaust housing
56mm/84mm Compressor wheel
74mm/65mm Turbine wheel
4" inlet/2"outlet compressor cover
Pros: Different combo options than big 3, ceramic coating available.
Cons:
Cost: $2350


If anyone has any input I would love to hear it about any of these turbos, other kits or options offered, or anything else. My main goal was to give a pretty fair breakdown of all the turbo kits available for idi's.

 

[jaluhn83]

HX35 works well, though you'd want to drop the CR a bit to use it IMHO. Not sure what pipe/mount setup would work best though - mine is all custom fab.

Also worth noting whether you're looking for a turbo for a stock motor or one that's been decked to lower the CR - if you're looking for a stock engine setup you'll be looking at ~10 psi, so some of the more fancy turbos probably woln't do much.

 

[dunk]

Thanks for consolidating the info into one place. I have a Banks non wastegate and finally got a ZF5... Once that goes in I'll need to change to another turbo setup. Banks newer system is off the table due to high price sole provider of proprietary parts. ATS, I like the short crossover and simple setup but without current support I think it's not for me particularly with all the slip joint complaints I hear about worn out old parts, I want new once and done just works type of setup.

I was thinking Hypermax is the way to go at $2310 sticker price on their website, even better if Mel can sell them for $2290. If Mel is selling a more or less bolt on kit with the ball bearing turbo for only a few hundred more at roughly $2623.75 that seems like a no brainer to me. I don't see this setup mentioned or listed for pricing on Mel's website. Is this upgraded Hypermax based setup sold complete as a kit for a more or less bolt on install?

Curious to hear everyone's opinions and experience with all the different kits.

 

[Rot Box]

Looks good

ATS also offered the 085 kit. Not as common but they're out there.

And a con for the 088 kit... The cast piping/coupling/snail shell is a royal PITA if you ever have to remove the turbo or install it---or do pretty much anything with it

 

[Waystro]

The ATS 085 Turbo is a Bear to install and remove
Read my Turbo Thread.

 

[dunk]

Anyone running the R&D turbo setup? Hard to tell from the description on his site but it looks like custom log manifolds and shorter up pipes (stainless?) that are more tucked out of the way along with some other nifty options. Maybe not quite as bolt on or turn key as Hypermax or Mel's Hypermax based system but worth a look I think.

 

[jaluhn83]

I will agree that all seem about equally difficult to work on and experience is important, but that's no reason to be insulting... please remember that we try to maintain a civil respectful forum. Also worth remembering that there's a learning curve for everyone and that removing an old rusty stuck together system with what may or may not be the best tools for the job is a far cry from putting a brand new system on in a shop..... and also that taking a week of working a couple hours a day isn't really that long - most folks here have real jobs too....

More specific comments - I do not agree with the superiority of non WG turbos. I've run both and found no real difference in EGT, and the wg makes better low end boost which is important to me. Yes, you may have higher backpressure up to the point where the wg opens, but it's balanced by higher boost pressure giving more overall flow - hence comparable EGTs. One would think there's probably a reason most OEMs now use wg turbos....

Would agree that a ball bearing turbo is overkill on these rigs, but ball bearing isn't a bad idea. More moving parts, yes, but that doesn't mean it's a worse product. Your roller wheel bearing have many more parts than a plain bearing too, but I bet you'd prefer them over the journal bearings. Ball bearing turbos are well proven as reliable and good products - wouldn't pay extra for one, but certainly wouldn't say they're to be avoided.

 

[dunk]

Spending more money on purchasing a ball bearing style turbocharger like the "Moose" line for one of these trucks is just ridiculous. Which is why you don't see any of the other company's that offer kits, offering that bearing design. There is no need for a ball bearing style turbocharger on these old, low horsepower diesels. The point of spending more money on a more expensive ball bearing style turbocharger is to increase spool time, in turn engine response. These engines aren't responsive enough nor powerful enough to show a large difference in performance when going to a ball bearing turbocharger. This makes about as much sense as putting racing slicks on your mudder to get better traction. In addition the journal-bearing style has a small fraction of the amount of moving parts as a ball-bearing design, simplicity contributes to longevity.

Mel has not confirmed pricing but if the numbers above are accurate that's only $333.75 for a turbo that has ball bearings for quicker spooling and will push more air than the WG or non WG turbos in the major kits that seem to run in the 10-12 psi range. $333.75 isn't much (to me at least) in the context of a $2k+ expenditure on a truck that I expect to keep for 30+ years.

If the turbo itself moves more air and is suitable for this size engine, and spools faster, it seems it is at least a marginally better performing turbo for marginally more money. 14.5% more money, but does it perform 14.5% better? I don't know, maybe someone else does. Not at all akin to slicks on a mud truck as that would be a complete elimination of performance. Perhaps more akin to running a 12.5" tire vs a 10.5" tire of a 33" vs a 35"... Marginally better performing for marginally more money. Unless I'm mistaken and whatever turbo Hypermax uses on their kit performs superior to the ball bearing turbo Mel sells on his Hypermax based kit.

I agree with simplicity being reliability (this is why I drive a 30 year old truck, which happens to still be far newer than anything I've owned previously), though personally I doubt longevity would be an issue with ball bearings unless there was a lubrication failure.

 

[Waystro]

All of these kits have very similar installations. Dont knock the install of a kit just because you didnt know what your doing when you tried to remove it. It should never have taken you an entire week to get that off the vehicle. People whom are qualified to do the job can pull that entire kit in a few hours, just like any other kit on this list.

First off have you ever pulled a Turbo off a IDI?
I don't claim to be an expert. Yes I took longer than most to pull it but I work so really the only time I had to work on the truck was weekends and evenings
also a lot of the wait was for penetrating oil to do its work
i don't need to explain why it took so long to pull it.
Guess I shouldn't rebuild my engine since I'm not "Qualified" to do it.

 

[Black dawg]

For a towing IDI that ISNT crazy over geared, Wastegated all the way. Many of the non wastegated kits build very little boost by 2k.

And I agree, the 085 kit is tougher to install, and a total pita to get off if it has been on a long time.

 

[jaluhn83]

Question - is this based on theory or experience? What I have seen is that the EGTs go down with a WG turbo, having run both on the same truck. Yes, you have more chocking of the exhaust flow, but you also get more boost which means more air flow overall, diluting the hot gasses and reducing temps at the same power.

Also have seen no evidence of a WG setup falling off in power at high rpm - once the WG opens it should regulate boost at a steady level - no reason for it to fall off unless something isn't working right.

The problem with a non WG turbo is that the boost curve must be matched to the engine, which means the max boost is set by the maximum exhaust flow rate, ie max rpm at max load. Anything less than that will have less boost, so you're going to wind up with a turbo that either makes less than desired boost at mid to low rpm or too much at high rpm. The WG levels this out considerably so you can spec it to make max boost at moderate rpm and still control it at the high end - ideal for towing with low rpm torque.

Semi diesels tend to have a narrow enough power band that the effect of a non wg turbo isn't a bad - likewise stationary applications that run at constant rpm. It also appears that at least some of the higher powered engines use a WG turbo, probably to give a wider power band as mentioned above.

 

[KZF250]

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[Black dawg]

I dont think the exhaust side of the WG ats kit is a problem at the boost/power levels that a stock IP will do on these engines. The ats gated and non gated compressors are the same...at least the ones that I am looking at.

It is really hard to match a non wastegated turbine housing to an engine that makes peak torque around 1500, but max hp/governed rpm is 3500.

The wastegated ats kits I have been around work perfectly for these engines, I have even used one that made 20psi easily with 1200 max, and very controllable egt.

 

[hce]

I swapped out the non wastegated banks for wastegated banks. The only benifit to the non wastegated was ease of access to the bolts. The gain in performance with the wastegated turbo is surprising in all areas.

 

[IDIoit]

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holy hairdryer!!!!