87' 6.9 idi won't turn over.

[Farmer Rock]

I did mess with the actuator rod on the column and it didn't do anything.But I feel there is a short somewhere since this happened after a hot wire touched bare metal.Could a bad gp relay cause this?thanks

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I'd say probably not. They do totally separate things. I don't remember you mentioning this. What's wrong with your glow plugs?

 

[riphip]

Do you have tilt steering in this truck??

 

[Farmer Rock]

IDIBRONCO-Ever since this happened my glow plugs have been drawing less and less voltage each time I try,now the voltage gauge doesn't really move at all.Three of my GP's are bad,but have been ever since I got the truck,and it never had a problem like that.Also when I turn the key to "START" nothing happens,but the dash lights all come on,and the temp gauge jumps strait up to "HOT",which it never did any of that before either.I don't know if it's related or not,but since the temp sytem,GP system,and starter system are connected through the GP controller,I am starting to wonder.If this is the problem,do you think I fried the Glow plug relay?I really hope it's something as simple as a relay.thanks


riphip-Nope,it doesn't have tilt steering.thanks



Rock

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I don't know if it's related or not,but since the temp sytem,GP system,and starter system are connected through the GP controller,I am starting to wonder.If this is the problem,do you think I fried the Glow plug relay?I really hope it's something as simple as a relay.thanks

The temp gauge and the starter are not connected through the glow plug relay. A bad relay and the glow plugs may be your issues with it drawing less voltage. The starter not working still sounds like either ignition switch, key switch, starter solenoid, or a wiring issue to me. I would work on the glow plug and starter issues before worrying about the temp gauge.
Using your sideways picture, I can see why you are thinking that the temp gauge and the starter are connected through the glow plug relay, but you are wrong. First, the what you are seeing is "engine temperature switch". This has nothing to do with the gauge. It is a switch only to turn on and off the fast idle and the timing advance with engine temperature. It say "switch", not sending unit. That is for the gauge and it's on the other side of the engine and is in the block right behind the IP gear housing and underneath the back of the A/C compressor, assuming that you have A/C. If you follow your double yellow lines down, you cab see where they do attach to the side of the starter solenoid. If you then follow the red line you can see where it attaches to the batteries. This point is the hot side of the solenoid only. It is used as an attaching point to get power to several different things. Other than the hot from the batteries, these wires do not affect the starter in any way. The starter gets it's "signal" to start only when the solenoid is powered up. You can see the "switch" symbol inside the starter relay (as it's called here). Since the solenoid's only function is to be the switch to send power down to the solenoid on the starter when the key is turned to "start", there is only an intermittent, temporary connection between the two sides of the relay. The solenoid/switch is activated when you turn the key to "start" and is not at any other time. The power to get to both the lower starter solenoid and the glow plug controller comes from the batteries and separates into two different sets of wires at the junction on the hot side of the solenoid. Power doesn't come from the glow plug relay and go to the starter in any way.
For your starter issue (remember these are separate issues), you say that the engine will start when you "jump across" the starter solenoid. I'm assuming that you're talking about manually connecting the two sides of the solenoid with something like screwdrivers or pliers. This is bypassing the solenoid itself. You are taking it out of the equation and testing that the starter itself is working this when you do this. The way to manually test the solenoid on the fender is to unplug the small wire that's facing the engine and then put power to it. This is where this solenoid gets it's signal to close the internal switch which lets power go through it and down to the solenoid on the starter. If you power the small terminal on the fender mounted solenoid and the truck starts (or just if the starter starts turning the engine over) Then the problem is that you are not getting power to this point for some reason. Either this wire is bad (broken) somewhere along the way, or the key or ignition switch is not sending power to this wire. This is where the adjustment on the ignition switch comes into play. It is possible for you to be able to turn the key to the start position, have all of the lights on the dash light up like the starter is turning over, and still not quite be able to activate the solenoid on the fender. This is why it's VERY important to check to see if there is any power going to this solenoid with the key in the start position.
One thing at a time!

 

[Farmer Rock]

IDIBRONCO-I did jump the starter relay by removing the small red wire,and touching a wire from the battery to where the small red wire was,and it started up.What is the best way to test the ignition switch/starter switch?And what does it involve?thank you for all the helpful information.

Rock

 

[IDIBRONCO]

At least you're on the way here. Electrical is not my thing so I'm going to let some one else tell you how to check those out. If I could even think of the words, it still probably wouldn't be a good description. You can check the continuity of the small wire to see if it's broken. I'm not sure where to find it on the inside. I haven't messed with that one in a long time. Now that I think about it, you can find it attached to the clutch switch (you did say that it's working). I don't know which side it would be on though.

 

[Farmer Rock]

Ok,I will check the wire that was on the clutch switch.I assume that is the same wire going to the starter relay after the ignition,correct?I am also going to wire in a fuse box to replace the rat's net of fusible links on and around the starter relay.I really appreciate your help with this problem,and I will update you if anything changes.thanks

Rock

 

[riphip]

My key/column switch quit working (tilt) and got tired of messing with it. Will crank by jumping solenoid so I installed a unlighted button hooked from hot wire to 10 amp fuse to starter solenoid (same small post you used) and now turn on key, push button to crank/start w/o problems. Hard to see button where I have it & sometimes have to remember where it is since I don't drive truck a lot now that I have the Expedition. (long sentence)

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Ok,I will check the wire that was on the clutch switch

Was on the clutch switch? If it isn't plugged in, then that could be your whole problem. There should be two wires on the clutch switch. One for power in, one for power out. The power in, should have power whenever the key is in the start position. The power out wire should only have power when the clutch pedal is pushed in and the key is in start. This is so that you are forced to push in the clutch before the engine will start so that it won't be accidentally started while in gear. You may be able to trace which one goes where. One should go to the wiring plug that comes off of the ignition switch and is your power in wire. The other will go toward (and through) the firewall over to the fender solenoid. This is your power out wire. In short, the electrical part of the clutch switch in in the closed position when the pedal is pushed in and then power will go through the clutch switch and to the solenoid when the key is in the start position. Personally, I find the clutch switch to be kind of a PITA and bypass it if it isn't already when I get a truck. Disclaimer: this is not a safe thing to do and isn't recommended by me at all (yes do what I say not what I do).

 

[IDIBRONCO]

My key/column switch quit working (tilt) and got tired of messing with it. Will crank by jumping solenoid so I installed a unlighted button hooked from hot wire to 10 amp fuse to starter solenoid (same small post you used) and now turn on key, push button to crank/start w/o problems. Hard to see button where I have it & sometimes have to remember where it is since I don't drive truck a lot now that I have the Expedition. (long sentence)

I actually have done this on both on my driver trucks and will also be doing it on the Ex Wife truck. Just to avoid the broken actuator issues that this era of trucks is known for.

 

[Farmer Rock]

The clutch switch was bypassed by the previous owner,so the wires aren't on the clutch pedal assembly any more,it is capped off behind the fuse panel under the dash.

Rock

 

[Farmer Rock]

If it does turn out to be the ignition/key switch then I have no problem with the push button,and it did cross my mind,but I just want to be sure what the problem is before I start cutting up a factory harness,which is my main concern.


Rock

 

[riphip]

I just ran the wire from battery side of solenoid > fuse > switch > start post (Small) on solenoid. Put switch in wait to start panel. 16 gauge wire is what I used. No ground needed.

 

[Farmer Rock]

Riphip-do you know what color the wires are you used on the push button switch?If I go this route,I want to be sure of the wires.thanks

Rock