Help me decide, E4OD vs ZF5

[Daryl4]

The primary rig in question is an 89 Centurion 4 Door Bronco. NA7.3IDI, E4OD, D60, etc. Bought it about 2 weeks ago and the tranny is doing funky things. Most concerning is an RPM flare during the 2-3 shift. I intend this rig to be my primary do it all while never letting me down rig. Daily driver, some off-road adventures, some towing, and a BOV.

I'd always leaned towards manuals in the past, I like the control. But there's something to be said for not having to shift constantly. For being able to drive kinda lazy, drive when injured, multi task better while driving, let the woman drive, etc.

Then there's the reliability question. There's those that say a good E4OD is more durable then a ZF5. The ZF can break sure but it's primary long run failure is going to be the clutch. But what about the E4OD, lot's to fail, but does it... Or when it does isn't it often still limpable?

Cost/hassle my current line of thinking seeing as I need to keep this rig drivable with only short interruptions for a while is to keep doing maintenance(dark but not burnt fluid) and get a Baumann controller for it. I'm thinking with the Baumann I'll have the best of both worlds. About as much control as is possible with a slushbox and the daily ease of an auto. But that's if this tranny can survive a while. On the other hand I have an IDI/ZF5 4WD F250 that's barely worth not parting. So there's all the parts I'd need to swap to a ZF5. But I'd have to do the work and have the rig down a while.

But which is better in the long run, even if in the long term I need to buy/rebuild a E4OD I can do that, but is it worth it, I'm torn.

Shoot after writing all that it sounds like I'm leaning E4OD, what say you? Is the E4OD just too much hassle and should be avoided?

 

[sjwelds]

Kinda a manual transmission guy myself, especially behind a diesel. However the E4OD can be a great transmission, with enough $$$. There are many more things that can go wrong electrical-wise though... But if you need ease of operation definitely auto is the way to go.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[riotwarrior]

I own 2 trucks near identical except gearing and trans....I am doing all I can to get the auto to be the go to ride....the zf rig though good is pita in town driving

 

[Daryl4]

sjwelds

That's the thing I don't NEED ease of operation but it would be good to have. Mostly concerned about the ability to drive injured.

Then there's the things that can go wrong, I kinda like to think of that as what would I carry if heading into the hills. For the ZF not much some ATF and brake fluid but I'd have those anyway. Little is likely to fail and what would fail can't really be fixed trailside. Mayyyybe a slave an master, IDK. The E4OD on the other hand, bit more complicated. Electrically the controller(Baumann) needs inputs from three sensors, TPS, VSS, and Range Sensor. All of which could be carried and easily replaced, and none are well known failure points. The controller itself, I haven't even heard of any failing, but I don't know many that are out there so who knows. The solenoid pack, I guess if I had to I could replace that trailside, though I can't imagine I'd carry one. Fluid though would be a certainty in case I sprang a leak, what 16qts/4 gallons for a full fill, that get's to taking up space. As far as major transmission internals go, while I may currently have an issue they aren't known for breaking without warning from stress. While that's exactly what a ZF would do, when you need it most is exactly when it's going to fail and likely with little warning.

riotwarrior

Similar here, I also have an 89 F350 CC 4WD IDI C6. The C6 was on it's way out and I was planning a ZF swap. But it got towed and the tow company finished off the tranny before I got to it. That's in part what got me shopping for a rig to drive and when I found the Centurion. But now that I got this rig (wanted one for years, got lucky with timing) that may be changing. If I stick with the E4OD in the Centurion, I'll likely go E4OD in both just to keep everything as similar as possible. Big investment but I find myself with more money these days, but I've traded it for less time, lol. Of course that also gives me two diesel ZF5s and related parts I can sell, that should even things up a bit.

Daily I deal with a lot of traffic, lights, etc. I also drive for a living, shifting get's old fast.

 

[riotwarrior]

My ZF rig was a C6 and crappy fuel economy...zf helped...but I long for the ease of driving in town w an auto...sure makes it saweeter.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

If this helps;
The E4OD will get you home,in the event of a complete power failure.0 Volts to the trans.You'll always have 2nd gear in the manual 1 and 2 positions,along with reverse and then once rolling,even OD (no 3rd or converter lock) by shifting back to D,so it's not even like a crawl home,event.No spare solenoid pack and gallons of ATF required.

 

[DaveBen]

I have always had manual tranny in ALL of my trucks, except for this one. It has the auto that Ford put out in 2003 in the 6.0l diesel. That is a very nice tranny and it seems to handle almost anything. I change the tranny fluid every 60,000 miles and I am good! I don't miss shifting a bit. I drove a 13 spd tranny in my Kenworth and that will keep you busy. I could shift 3 times going through the intersection. They have 18 spd trannys but they are all going to automatic shifting trannys.

 

[madpogue]

Um, "the woman" won't drive a manual?

BOV ~== E4OD. If you really want to be prepared, you don't want to be dependent on electronics, and you want a vehicle that could be pull-started by another vehicle if necessary. A C6 would be your automatic of choice, but of course at the cost of an overdrive gear.

 

[Daryl4]

If this helps;
The E4OD will get you home,in the event of a complete power failure.0 Volts to the trans.You'll always have 2nd gear in the manual 1 and 2 positions,along with reverse and then once rolling,even OD (no 3rd or converter lock) by shifting back to D,so it's not even like a crawl home,event.No spare solenoid pack and gallons of ATF required.

Good info, I knew I'd get 2nd and reverse, didn't know OD. But I'd still need enough ATF in the tranny for a working converter, and pump to engage those gears. The ATF in that line of thinking is for if I blew the cooler line or punched a hole in the pan. Both though are better hardened then carrying all that ATF.

Um, "the woman" won't drive a manual?

Well she will, but will I let her....lol.

BOV ~== E4OD. If you really want to be prepared, you don't want to be dependent on electronics, and you want a vehicle that could be pull-started by another vehicle if necessary. A C6 would be your automatic of choice, but of course at the cost of an overdrive gear.

On the BOV thing if your referring to EMP I'm not with most that it's a worry. Both the power and odds of an EMP is blown way out of proportion in the "prepper" community. I put it on the same level as worrying about zombies. I'm also already somewhat dependent on electronics, at least currently. Already takes two good batteries to start our trucks. The loss of electrical power while already running would be a concern. It's one thing to keep the FSS powered, another to keep the tranny powered. But, again at that point I guess it becomes a wide ratio manual shift two speed.

The ability to pull start is a good point. Even with good batteries and all, if the starter fails it'd be handy. Makes replacing the starter the only option with a bum starter. But heck, I already pack a spare starter most of the time, at least did in the truck. I've changed a few in some random places.

 

[Thewespaul]

I have always had manual tranny in ALL of my trucks, except for this one. It has the auto that Ford put out in 2003 in the 6.0l diesel. That is a very nice tranny and it seems to handle almost anything. I change the tranny fluid every 60,000 miles and I am good! I don't miss shifting a bit. I drove a 13 spd tranny in my Kenworth and that will keep you busy. I could shift 3 times going through the intersection. They have 18 spd trannys but they are all going to automatic shifting trannys.

Im a manual guy but those 6.0 trannys are amazing, any other auto I've towed with has been annoying to use, even in a 2016 duramax with a tranny called Allison

 

[Daryl4]

Im a manual guy but those 6.0 trannys are amazing, any other auto I've towed with has been annoying to use, even in a 2016 duramax with a tranny called Allison

I have always had manual tranny in ALL of my trucks, except for this one. It has the auto that Ford put out in 2003 in the 6.0l diesel. That is a very nice tranny and it seems to handle almost anything. I change the tranny fluid every 60,000 miles and I am good! I don't miss shifting a bit. I drove a 13 spd tranny in my Kenworth and that will keep you busy. I could shift 3 times going through the intersection. They have 18 spd trannys but they are all going to automatic shifting trannys.

At work we have an I think 2016 F250 gas 6 speed auto I sometimes have to drive. I HATE that tranny, it'll always take the first opportunity to go to the highest gear possible then do these hard double or triple downshifts when you have to get back on the throttle. I never let that tranny decide for itself to upshift, whenever I drive that thing I'm always using the select-shift.

 

[Daryl4]

FORDF250HDXLT I've read a fair amount of your stuff over on FTE. I can't remember though, are you using the Baumann?

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

No.I like the factory ('94) TECA's.

 

[oregon96psd]

At work we have an I think 2016 F250 gas 6 speed auto I sometimes have to drive. I HATE that tranny, it'll always take the first opportunity to go to the highest gear possible then do these hard double or triple downshifts when you have to get back on the throttle. I never let that tranny decide for itself to upshift, whenever I drive that thing I'm always using the select-shift.

Haha, good to see the gasser guys have to deal with the same **** trans. I drive an f650 now with that pos, and just got traded out of a f550 with the same thing. Try driving one of those stupid slushboxes in town, in a 25k lbs truck....makes you want to drive straight through the nearest ford dealerships showroom. My last one I used that stupid excuse for a gear selector switch so much that the button wore out and quit working lol. And don't get me started on the bs one touch, useless ******* turn signal.....whoever designed that needs to be at the bottom of the ocean.

Rant over.....throw the autotragic in the scrap bin where it belongs, and put a zf in it

 

[Daryl4]

Haha, good to see the gasser guys have to deal with the same **** trans. I drive an f650 now with that pos, and just got traded out of a f550 with the same thing. Try driving one of those stupid slushboxes in town, in a 25k lbs truck....makes you want to drive straight through the nearest ford dealerships showroom. My last one I used that stupid excuse for a gear selector switch so much that the button wore out and quit working lol. And don't get me started on the bs one touch, useless ******* turn signal.....whoever designed that needs to be at the bottom of the ocean.

Rant over.....throw the autotragic in the scrap bin where it belongs, and put a zf in it

IDK man might have you beat there, at least you(I assume) have a diesel. The powers that be at work decided that this gasser F250 was the right rig to tow an enclosed 5th wheel car trailer around the city. Stupid thing will go to 6th gear at 40 MPH if I let it, then when I put my foot in it. As you need to with a gasser pulling 15K it'll make this crazy 6th to 2nd jump that feels like it's going to rip the rear end out of the truck. That stupid tow haul thing is F'n useless it just delays everything in stupid ways. 6 gears is just too damn many for a stupid gov regulated eco-retard computer to manage. I never let it go past 4th.

And OMG that F'n turn signal, the people around me must be so confused at times. He's going left, no right, no left, f-it U-turn.

That said this E4OD ain't so bad 4 gears is just right and I think with the Baumann I can do as I please. With it can install manual shift buttons, up to 4 "tables", and options up the wazzo to make it do exactly what I want, at least I think, we'll see.