Towing heavy at 20MPH

[Black dawg]

Holy moly that was a bunch of unrelated garbage.

Almost none of my original thoughts and questions were addressed past page 2!

I agree, and apologize, when I first started posting I thought I was in a different thread, but continued on even after I figured it out.

 

[jhenegh]

I guess ill try again as its completely on topic and still hasnt been answered or adressed:

Will it even shift to OD?

The E4 will not shift into fourth when in four low. It will lock the converter when the conditions are met.

As for engine braking.it will work without the transfer case in low. Manual shifting is your friend. Pull the shift lever out of drive.

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[Black dawg]

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that is interesting, as my 89 e40d would shift into overdrive in low range? But.... the converter would also lock in 1st gear under the right conditions, which I have heard they are not supposed to ....

 

[trackspeeder]

that is interesting, as my 89 e40d would shift into overdrive in low range? But.... the converter would also lock in 1st gear under the right conditions, which I have heard they are not supposed to ....

Your E4 has issues. Most 89 issued trannys did some funky stuff. Ford quickly did updates to correct the problems.

 

[jay22day]

so (after all the blah blah about off-topic) completely contrary to the original (topic) post a E40D cant go into OD in low...??....

Im not sure i understand the need to pull 12,000 lbs in low?

Dont get me wrong thats a good load, but whats the reason its being pulled in low and not if normal 2wd (especially if the truck is equipped with a turbocharger that can make up for a less than perfect gear ratio)

 

[79jasper]

Im not sure i understand the need to pull 12,000 lbs in low?

Answered here.

Say a farmer wanted to pull a loaded 12,000lb grain wagon 20 miles at the brisk speed of 20MPH. That farmer has a 4x4 truck with manual front hubs and an E4OD. That farmer wants to pull this load in 4-low (essentially 2-low with hubs unlocked) with the hubs unlocked to use all 4 gears in his transmission, actually lockup the converter on the trip, have engine braking, and be able to takeoff from a stop with less complaining from the transmission and truck in general.

If he were able to tow at higher speeds, say 60 mph, there would have been no question, and he would've towed it in 2 high.
Which he could get into overdrive and the converter would lock, giving engine braking.

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[jay22day]

Answered here.

Quote Originally Posted by jhenegh View Post
Say a farmer wanted to pull a loaded 12,000lb grain wagon 20 miles at the brisk speed of 20MPH. That farmer has a 4x4 truck with manual front hubs and an E4OD. That farmer wants to pull this load in 4-low (essentially 2-low with hubs unlocked) with the hubs unlocked to use all 4 gears in his transmission, actually lockup the converter on the trip, have engine braking, and be able to takeoff from a stop with less complaining from the transmission and truck in general.

If he were able to tow at higher speeds, say 60 mph, there would have been no question, and he would've towed it in 2 high.
Which he could get into overdrive and the converter would lock, giving engine braking.

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thanks but

there is no "answer there" hence the question. I don't understand the NEED to use "all 4 gears in his transmission" to get to 20mph? 12,000 pounds isnt an "OUT OF THIS WORLD" (so to say) load that one would consider needing 4 gears to pull, to get to 20mph.

 

[79jasper]

So it would lock up the torque converter. ...........

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[jay22day]

but whats the point of running such low gearing to achieve locking the converter, over just pulling it in 1st in 2wd as most everyone tows in? is there a concern at 12,000 lbs that the transmission is going to see such high temperatures, one would want to reduce potential friction? to the point you would need the converter to lock and be generating lower internal temps?

 

[79jasper]

You're just not understanding.
Over thinking it or something.
I can't explain it any better.

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[LCAM-01XA]

but whats the point of running such low gearing to achieve locking the converter, over just pulling it in 1st in 2wd as most everyone tows in? is there a concern at 12,000 lbs that the transmission is going to see such high temperatures, one would want to reduce potential friction? to the point you would need the converter to lock and be generating lower internal temps?

Because an E4OD usually does not lock the converter in 1st or 2nd gear, at least unless it's been messed with. The factory-style E4OD converter is very very loose, therefore she will "slip" a lot and make stupid amounts of heat. At such low speeds there's not enough airflow to dissipate that heat even with an external cooler, unless said cooler has its own electric fans (which most do not have). So you can either keep her in high range and keep her in 1st or 2nd and watch the converter change color, or you can drop in low range, let her get into 3rd where she locks the converter, and enjoy life knowing job is getting done at a slower pace but safely for everyone and their equipment.

You have an E4OD, right? Do you have a temperature gauge for it? If yes where is its sensor? Keep an eye on it and you'll know exactly what the E4 is capable of in the heating department, it's really quite impressive (and not in a good way).

 

[PwrSmoke]

How much "looser" is the E4OD converter vs a C6? I have no frame of reference on this, other than my C6, which does not get hot at 15,000 lbs. and above in high range and did not get excessively hot towing at 62,000 lbs (see the pic) in low range. I know the lockup converters have a higher flash stall than non-lockup, I can look up the specs I guess, but I am mainly looking for a frame of reference from the driver's perspective.

 

[Agnem]

I can't speak to the E4OD directly, having never owned one. I've driven them, but don't remember how they acted in low gears. But my C6 would run circles around the 4R100 in my Excursion, which as I understand it, is a beefed up E4OD. It seems that the trucks that feature lock up torque converters have more "slip" than non-lockup converters, because I would assume the engineers thought "since we can make it not slip at all, we can make it slip a little more than usual to amplify the torque." Just guessing. But yeah, I would not own an automatic if I had to do a lot of 20 MPH hauling. Of course you have the power to pull it. Most tractors don't have half the horsepower you have, but they have the gears, and gears are wonderful.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

Because an E4OD usually does not lock the converter in 1st or 2nd gear, at least unless it's been messed with. The factory-style E4OD converter is very very loose, therefore she will "slip" a lot and make stupid amounts of heat. At such low speeds there's not enough airflow to dissipate that heat even with an external cooler, unless said cooler has its own electric fans (which most do not have). So you can either keep her in high range and keep her in 1st or 2nd and watch the converter change color, or you can drop in low range, let her get into 3rd where she locks the converter, and enjoy life knowing job is getting done at a slower pace but safely for everyone and their equipment.

You have an E4OD, right? Do you have a temperature gauge for it? If yes where is its sensor? Keep an eye on it and you'll know exactly what the E4 is capable of in the heating department, it's really quite impressive (and not in a good way).

^ well explained.when the converter locks up (at about 35 mph in normal 2hi range) the pump flows super incredible amounts of fluid.(the 4r100 is just the opposite due to how it's pump works.the 4r100 pumps better when unlocked than locked.this is why those guys love the massive 6.0 l trans coolers for over the road towing.)
if you only plan on driving 20 mph she's not going to lock up and shed the heat it will with a locked converter.
if you can shift into 4lo range (no need for hubs locked,you just using the t-case set of low gears) it will make it enter 3rd/lock much,much sooner and run much much cooler,plus for 20mph the control of the whole truck in general will feel better while crawling like this,and removes a lot of stress on the trans.t-cases are wonderful,wonderful devices.i will find a way to get one into log truck while keeping an e-brake.i hate crawling around in that beast,especially loaded in 2hi.sure it's 5.13's help a little.........but nothing compared to a t-case lo range.oh man.t-cases belong in every truck lol...............................and so do front axles!

 

[PwrSmoke]

If I recall correctly, at 25 mph in low range and with 4.10:1 gears and 33-inch tires, my truck was turning near 3000 rpm, even in direct. On paper it calculated out to a bit over 2800 rpm but there was some converter slippage that could add 100-200 rpm. That's not a situation I would prefer for many miles. With the 60,000 lbs. pull, I was going slower than 25 (I could feel the seat cover at the back of my throat ( : < ) for good reasons other than wanting to not rev the engine. With a 15K lbs. load, and a ways to go at 25 mph, there is no reason to use low range... you have to balance all aspects of the situation, the old, "If you needs six, load six," scenario. My truck has no trouble pulling the load in direct at 25 mph and trans temp on the C6 doesn't even break 200F (I do have a substantial old-school fin & tube cooler) on the 10 mile run to the elevator I usually use. Nary a hill in Putnam County, Ohio, though!