Towing heavy at 20MPH

[jhenegh]

Towing heavy at 20MPH with E4OD

Polling the audience here:

Say a farmer wanted to pull a loaded 12,000lb grain wagon 20 miles at the brisk speed of 20MPH. That farmer has a 4x4 truck with manual front hubs and an E4OD. That farmer wants to pull this load in 4-low (essentially 2-low with hubs unlocked) with the hubs unlocked to use all 4 gears in his transmission, actually lockup the converter on the trip, have engine braking, and be able to takeoff from a stop with less complaining from the transmission and truck in general.

This farmer already uses "2-low" around the yard to move things etc, just never had a reason (or thought/idea) to take to the road with it.

Any problem with running an E4OD in overdrive with transfer case in low?

Any issues with driving a fair distance in low?

Curious farmers are wanting to know

 

[FarmerFrank]

Well let's just say a farmer would ask a farmer about moving this.

He'd probably say check or change the oil in the transferase first, and drive easy.

Get that corn outta there and with that 200 bu pay day you can purchase a junk yard transferase if yours pukes.

My buddy hauled all his corn 20-40 miles with his 05 6.0 and a 225 bu gravity box with only one wheel bearing failure. And he was running 55-60mph empty!!

 

[ironworker40]

The distance is not an issue. Snow plowers who do roads run many hundreds of miles in low a year. I did for 20 years with no transfer case failures. I also use low without hubs locked for many things manly backing in trailers with no ill effects ( transfer case has no idea the hubs aren't locked). Just be easy on the throttle because with that much torque going to only 1 axle things like u joints and axleshafts can break if you jump on it to hard

 

[OLDBULL8]

I don't think it will ever shift into OD, but convertor should lockup when it shifts 2nd to 3rd. Top speed is ~35 MPH. That engine will be screaming at that speed. I accidently shifted into 2 low when pulling a 30 ft 5er, didn't know you had to put it in neutral to shift out of 2 low. Thought I had plenty of time to cross a hiway from a side road, almost crapped my pants when I seen the traffic coming at me. There was a little brake screaming from the on coming traffic. Suggest he should try it off hiway, meaning a side road. Better have the E flashers going on the hopper trailer. What year and model of truck? PSD-IDI or gasser.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

i was going to guess just the opposite oldbull,that it will go through all the gears but im unsure if the converter locks up.i use 4lo all the time but never at speed going down the road.it's for sure not going to hurt anything.having a t-case is so frigging handy even without using it as a traction aid/to the drive the front.just like always,you just want to monitor your trans temp and drive accordingly.
easy enough to tell what happens.put her in 4lo empty and drive down the road.if your unsure which gear it's in,hit od cancel.if it cancels,you were in od.touch the brakes while still on the throttle.if it revs up a bit,the converter was locked.
either way it's safe to use all day long just insuring temps of everything remains within spec.run 'er.she'll pull heavy real easy with the gearing.slowly,but effortlessly.

 

[Clb]

all my 4x4's are stick shift' that noted,,,I do this on occasion mostly under 35 mph.
interested in IF it will lockup for ya.
fwiw..cb.

Edit in here so I don't clutter the thread!
This should go over to pbb( perfect fit)

Not for nuthin
There is a reason why all the tractors on the farm "WERE" manuals!
That said, the c-6 is more like an idi the e4od is more like a psd!
Sort of an even trade c-6 bullet proof, od bells an whistles!
The ? Is ...IF A FARMER WANTED

 

[franklin2]

I remember reading in a GM truck manual that they did not recommend running the truck in 4 low with the hubs unlocked. They said it was prone to breaking the rear driveline with the front not taking any of the load. I do it all the time, but it probably would be easy to break something in 4 low.

 

[mblaney]

In 4x4 with the front hubs unlocked you are spinning the front drive shaft - the hub spline assembly has to take the wear (needle bearing on the inside, lock assembly on the outside). They are not designed as a true bearing. As long as both wheels are turning at the same speed as the axles then this is probably minor, but any steering or differentiation between the two wheels would probably wear the crap out of it. The locking hubs are intended to be locked (no rotation within the assembly) or not driven at all (t-case disengaged).

 

[sjwelds]

I remember reading in a GM truck manual that they did not recommend running the truck in 4 low with the hubs unlocked. They said it was prone to breaking the rear driveline with the front not taking any of the load. I do it all the time, but it probably would be easy to break something in 4 low.

YEAH but these are Ford trucks, NOT GM!!!!

 

[Kevin 007]

I don't think it will ever shift into OD, but convertor should lockup when it shifts 2nd to 3rd. Top speed is ~35 MPH. That engine will be screaming at that speed. I accidently shifted into 2 low when pulling a 30 ft 5er, didn't know you had to put it in neutral to shift out of 2 low. Thought I had plenty of time to cross a hiway from a side road, almost crapped my pants when I seen the traffic coming at me. There was a little brake screaming from the on coming traffic. Suggest he should try it off hiway, meaning a side road. Better have the E flashers going on the hopper trailer. What year and model of truck? PSD-IDI or gasser.

Yeah I have never had an E4od shift through all the gears when in 4lo. They would only go to 2nd. Once I had a shift fork or something fail in the T-case and had to drive a long ways in Lo to get home. Man did I ever wish it would have shifted to something higher then 2nd.

 

[PwrSmoke]

Been doing this for 12 years now and have towed up to 31 tons of grain wagon. See my picture here on left. That's two 350 bushel wagons (with brakes). You do the math.

Because a grain wagon puts no weight onto the rear tires and our trucks are very nose heavy/tail light, you most often need 4-wheel high, hubs locked, to get going on anything but good pavement (and sometimes even there). Normally, I tow a single loaded 200 or 250 bushel wagon with no brakes (12-15000 lbs.). Moving the load is not an issue in 4-wheel hi. I have never used low range... doesn't need it for these "light" loads (I have 4.10 gears). I did use low range getting those two 350 bushel wagons off the field (plus I had about 1000 lbs. of tractor weights in the bed) but once I was on pavement, I didn't need low range. Once I towed about 16,000 lbs. 25 miles with the truck at farm-legal speeds with an unbraked grain trailer, truck in high range 4wd. and while diff and trans temp were a bit higher, they were both still well below 200F. No drama at all. The 31 ton deal (the two 350 bu wagons plus another 250 bu) was a bit of a bear on the field and I was glad for a bed full of tractor weights and the Truetrac rear LSD. The truck did it but it was tough and I wouldn't push it that hard again (rain coming, no help and three wagons full of beans... what do you do?)

Since I have diff and trans oil temp gauges on my truck, I can monitor some drivetrain parameters to gauge the effort, and at 25 mph on the 5 miles to my favorite elevator, the diff doesn't even make it to 150F. The trans... mine is a C-6... depends on how hot the day. Wheat harvest in July, I might see 150-180 (truck has a good cooler) on a hot day but most often is below 150F.

The most important time to use four-wheel high ... hubs locked.. is stops, which should be your primary concern. Because a grain wagon puts no weight on the rear tires, if you have to stop hard, the rear tires can lock up (my new truck has ABS so this is not an issue). Once, I had to stop hard with the old truck, the rear tires locked and the truck jackknifed a little as the wagon pushed it a little sideways (you can still see the clench marks on my seat cover ( : < ) the undies were a write-off). With 4wd hi engaged, the front and rear brakes are connected via the driveline and the rear tires don't lock up. Poor man's ABS ( : < ).

In short, IMO, you have little to worry about, except being able to stop, at 20-25 mph with a 12,000 load. What I do is lock the hubs and use 4 wheel high to get moving or stop, then pull it back into 2-wheel for turns and clear running, but be ready to pull it into 4-hi for stops, traffic or loose ground. Having no weight on the rear tires is a major issue and why the 4-wheel drive is important. If you have some loose tractor weights, they really help on both the starts and stops but put them where they won't slide all over the bed (I have a rack to keep them located over the rear axle).

 

[trackspeeder]

The E4 will not shift into fourth when in four low. It will lock the converter when the conditions are met.

As for engine braking.it will work without the transfer case in low. Manual shifting is your friend. Pull the shift lever out of drive.

 

[ZWilson07]

In 4x4 with the front hubs unlocked you are spinning the front drive shaft - the hub spline assembly has to take the wear (needle bearing on the inside, lock assembly on the outside). They are not designed as a true bearing. As long as both wheels are turning at the same speed as the axles then this is probably minor, but any steering or differentiation between the two wheels would probably wear the crap out of it. The locking hubs are intended to be locked (no rotation within the assembly) or not driven at all (t-case disengaged).

Hmm never thought about that although I never was one to use 4wd low in 2wd. I can see reasons for why people do, I just personally have never had a situation where i felt the need to.

To be fair I still think it'll make the trip at 20 mph but like mentioned, I don't know how much wear will result from it nor if it will result in a measurable amount of wear that would justify it not being worth doing.

 

[Red coyote hunter]

At 12000lbs of weight I honestly wouldn't worry about using low unless you had to start on a hill. I have towed a two car gooseneck loaded down the express way at 60-65, total weight by the cat scales was 21000 for the whole thing. Granted this was with a C6 and 3.55 but I didn't have an issue getting the load moving. the only problem I had was keeping highway speeds up some decent sized hills.

 

[david85]

Only real concern I would have is the added torque you will be forcing through the drive shaft and axles. Light foot, low speed, and plan ahead.

Although really, I'm not sure you even need low range unless you expect steep hills or uphill starts. I have to say, I'm disappointed to hear the OEM equipped E4OD's will not use all their gears in low range.