How much is TOO much?

RedHotNRollin

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im not lookin for a race truck. my dads PSD has a ts performance chip, dfuser 18k, 5inch exhaust and an afe intake and that trucks a rocket. i just want a reliable old work horse. i dunno how to explain it. I have 1950 ford sedan with a flathead v8... offy head and edmunds 4bbl intake fenton headers and a 3 speed with o/d. i dont like it casue its fast i like it cause its old. i dont use bondo i use lead... i just like vintage things. not that it matters but i jus thought id let you know. im not in it for speed im in it for the truck.

when i get some moeny again im gonna do all the things youve told me... ive made a list, a very VERY detailed list of all the things you and others have told me.

in the futur i see a moose pump, moose misters(hopfully) and and ats turbo. maybe head studs and an intercooler like you said.

i wanna know more about custom cams for these trucks... is it possible?
 

Dirtleg

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For everything that's been said I couldn't agree more. One thing that was mentioned but not in enough detail IMO was that you may have a worn out injection pump. If this turns out to be the case just replacing the pump and setting the timing correctly may give you all the extra power you were hoping to get by turning up the pump. I can tell you from experience it was a world of difference on mine.

I agree smoke is fun to have but these days it is just a luxury that cannot be enjoyed. Sucks but it is reality. Besides all smoke means is that you have too much fuel and not enough air in the cylinders. In other words "poorly tuned".
 

Brimmstone

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Summit racing sells an Autometer pyro for under 150 bucks. I've had mine in my F-350 for a few years now. It always works and is accurate. You need a pyro before you do any tweaks.
 

opusd2

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Having been around diesels MY whole life, repairing them since I was old enough to hold a wrench and running them (in tractors, Internationals mostly) since I could walk, I can attest to the fact that a strong engine doesn't need to smoke to have power. In fact, since I don't drive my diesels at 8K feet and work them ******* farms and the roads hauling perhaps more than I should be, I can tell you that I don't necessarily need a turbo and that smoke means squat.

Most of the Internationals (tractors) on the farm are NA and will do just about everything the turbos can, maybe just slower and they require less fussing with and monitoring. So working them hard all day is less stressful and as long as the oiling, cooling and fueling systems are working properly.

The beat up farm truck you see in my picture has a stock 6.9 with the pump just timed correctly, intake air improved and exhaust freer yet controlled to keep the po po from hassling me. And still like most other IDI owners I have hauled a LOT more than what the truck is rated both on board and on a gooseneck. I won't win any race, beauty contest, or be the quietest truck around, but I know that I didn't have to spend $30K to get a truck that will work as hard as I need to. And if I want more out of it, it's there if I want to add a turbo and change from the stock IP and injectors.

When I was 17 I wanted Cherry Bombs on my vehicles so my buddies would take notice of me, now I only worry that the exhaust is free flowing and loud isn't necessarily the answer to free flowing just like blowing black doesn't exactly mean you have power to spare. What it means is that you have fuel to spare, and that you will get noticed by your buddies and probably the police who will bother you about checking for dyed fuel, excessive smoke/noise - whatever. And like mentioned before, with more fuel than air you can possible melt some components that will leave you with a pretty boat anchor.

What I am getting at is, the IDI diesel was designed to work all day without complaining unless it's oil is neglected to be changed at decent intervals and with quality fluids. They don't have electronics to govern the fuel supply, engine speed, timing, or even the noise the engine makes so that some so called "endangered animal" doesn't lose sleep and lose the desire to reproduce and hang out in your backyard and annoy you. If you want the ease of building power with just a chip replacement or program download/upload, then you're going to want something a LOT newer.

The point I am trying to make is although a stack blowing some heavy black particulate into the air looks tough, it's just blowing it's load without pulling any more load than a less smoky emission. I think it's cool that you want to run an old machine and work it hard, and dammit - hard work it will do. But, if you're looking to run an old machine and compare it with (let's just say) a Duramax, even though you have two diesel engines sitting side by side you are essentially putting an old, well, 766 International farm tractor next to a newer 4640 John Deere. They both do the same thing, one just does it in a rough, lumbering and loud way and the other in a more refined, quite and comfortable fashion.

Boiled down, smoke is easy to get and so is dependability. But you can't get them both by guessing or doing it cheaply. And you will get noticed, just not always by those you are looking to impress.
 
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oldmisterbill

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I agree -especially with opusd2 they will do it all even with out a turbo-it just takes longer. The picture is of my first Ford IDI a 1984 F250 with a 7.3 non turbo -shortened frame-C6-3:55 s & a dump bed & helper springs. I plowed snow for 5 years with it for 5 years -then hauled over the road with it for 2 years (no AC was the reason I went to the 91 CC) This was taken in Canada when My trailer was still almost brand new in 2001. It says it all as far as what an IDI can accomplish. It didnt't smoke much -at night pulling hard I could see a haze in my rear view mirror -I turned the pump up -put dual exhaust on it -then turned the pump back down -it was all good a turbo would have been nice ( I got one when I got my CC) My CC had a blown engine so i put the one with the addition of a turbo from my 84 in it .I lost that engine after changing to Royal Purple (200.000 on the engine)something clogged a piston cooling tube.
I made so many trips between Oklahoma & Massachusetts moving my stuff (a whole shop-3 tractors personal stuff (I'm a pack self proclaimed pack rat) with that truck that I lost count,and was also hauling for a living, so i was in Canada -florida ,Texas Minnosota, all over the eastern 1/2 of our great country.
 

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JesterPgh

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I love these old IDIs. I had been running mine the way I bought it (bought in Feb. this year) with a damaged compressor wheel on the turbo. It's probably long overdue for a new IP and injectors, as I have a relatively regular very light gray haze from the stack, and it pops black at every upshift, and had been rolling coal with heavy loads going uphill. I recently rebuilt the turbo (ATS 088, non-gated), and now I have a pre-turbo exhaust leak that I haven't been able to find, and it's still making nicer boost than before. I know there's only like 4 places it could be coming from, but I haven't been able to locate it yet. Now, I haven't hauled anything heavy since rebuilding the turbo, so I can't say whether the smoke issue is effected by it or not, but either way, I've always watched my EGTs, but since the rebuild, my old Pyro gauge doesn't seem to want to work anymore, so I guess it's time for one of those too. All that long winded stuff being said, in regular driving, I rarely see over 5 lbs of boost empty, and typically only 1-2lbs. It's no race truck, but it does everything I ask it to do, and it does it cheaper per mile than my old 460 truck did.
 

RedHotNRollin

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Im tired of peopel thinking i just want speed and smoke. i know im 17 but im not dumb. i hate how i feel like peopel are hust razzin me cause im 17!
 

Fordsandguns

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Im tired of peopel thinking i just want speed and smoke. i know im 17 but im not dumb. i hate how i feel like peopel are hust razzin me cause im 17!

I don't think that they are intentionally ragging on you, or at least you in particular.
I think we are all just frustrated with how the government and the enviro-nuts view us and our older vehicles, and the possibility of commiefornia's crazy emissions laws moving across the country.
So now any mention of smoke from a younger person makes us nervous.
I don't think anyone here has it in for you.
Give them time to get to know you and read through the ranting for the advise.
There is a lot of experience on this site and everyone here is more than willing to help.
It's just they are all aware that big brother is watching.
 

k_williams1982

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Im tired of peopel thinking i just want speed and smoke. i know im 17 but im not dumb. i hate how i feel like peopel are hust razzin me cause im 17!

It not that I think that you want smoke out of the truck. I'm just trying to say that smoke means unburned fuel and possible damage to the engine. Protect your investment and "learn" yout truck before you start "tweaking" things. Try to find out a little "history" on the truck so that you know what it's been though and if the engine can handle the changes you want to make. I bought my previous IDI from my brother and even though I drove it reasonably, he had hammered the truck hard and the motor blew up about 5 months after I bought it from him.
 

redneckaggie

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I found this forum when i was 17, i am now 19 and wouldnt go anywhere else. coming from a guy that was in your exact position(17 with no money to spare on the truck) stick around here and learn a little from the guys here. there is plenty of knowledge on this site just sittin around for the asking. When i was in your shoes i did just what you were considering and cranked the pump without a pyro, i also drove around until i got a pyro praying and worrying that i wasnt melting my engine-i dont think the worrying is worth the hp gains. I also made many stupid mistakes costing me way to much money because i thought i knew what i was doing and have the oreily and napa accounts to prove it. I dont think that these guys are razzin you because you are 17, they are razzin you because multiple guys of all ages have come on here and automatically want to assume that they know more than everyone on here combined and it gets a little annoying when someone asks for advice because they dont fully understand what they are doing and upon the advice being given they tell you that you are wrong. It dont seem to me like you are that type of person.

that being said a properly timed fresh injection system will wake the truck very considerably. after that comes turbo, headstuds, intercooler, water/**** injection, propane and the list could continue.

as far as the custom cams go idk?????? I have never heard of cams on diesels so no proven results but i guess it is possible.

also welcome aboard and hope to see many more posts from you.
 

redneckaggie

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a little more performance can be obtained with a cold air intake and a free flowing filter with no ill effects check out the tech articles for some more info on that.
 

the90

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I am also 17 and a new idi owner. I have turned up the pump a few and am still hoping that the engine is not going to burn down. I have the pyro sitting in my garage and it is going to be a good day when i can just look up at a pyro instead of freaking out over a melted piston.
 

opusd2

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It not that I think that you want smoke out of the truck. I'm just trying to say that smoke means unburned fuel and possible damage to the engine. Protect your investment and "learn" yout truck before you start "tweaking" things. Try to find out a little "history" on the truck so that you know what it's been though and if the engine can handle the changes you want to make. I bought my previous IDI from my brother and even though I drove it reasonably, he had hammered the truck hard and the motor blew up about 5 months after I bought it from him.

Sounds like we both have similar brothers. My brother has always beaten every truck he's owned, plus the truck I drive now that used to be the farm work truck, complete with custom bodywork accomplished with hitting buildings, tractors and skid steer massaging the bed while loading GOD knows what!

Yet, although he beats everything he owns, whatever it is (from his '82 GMC 4x4 with 6.2l and 700R4 he never changed the tranny fluid on and ran with broken off studs on his back wheels, to his 94 Dodge Cummins he bought new that I am pretty sure still has the original air filter in it...), although he beats everything - it all works hard for him and he has few problems other than bald tires...

Which is why I am surprised that the 86 F250 I bought off the farm runs as good as it does. Then again, I am afraid to describe the things he did to it before he let it sit 3 years.

That being all said and coming back to the subject, an IDI is a very tough engine that can be coaxed into pulling a lot of power and dark emissions out of. But like mentioned before, the eco-police are trying to make us drive tiny shoe boxes that have little personality and no cool factor. Because trust me, I'd love to have a huge stovepipe sticking out behind the cab pouring out enough black to block out the sun and cause some to think I was a deity for doing so. But if I did so, the local po-po (who almost outnumber civilians in WI) would have my hands entwined as I lay face down on the pavement, or even my own gravel driveway. They would drain my fuel tank to see what color it was and if I could be fined for running something I didn't pay outrageous taxes on, and pop holes in my fuel filters to make sure the filter media was as clear as Hillary Clinton's intent to blame America for Mexico's problems.

Now I still enjoy dropping the hammer when I am driving every time I have a Smart Car on my right aft side near the exhaust exit, and that makes me guilty of also causing problems. Ok, so it also makes me giggle like a school girl, but I don't do it that often, I don't only do it to smart cars because sometimes people decked out in Lycra body suits, little color coordinated streamline helmets with rear view mirrors, and bicycles that cost more than my truck. I do it so they feel more connected to their cause of eliminating pollution.

The truth is we are probably very lucky that we haven't yet had to install a particulate filter or some other kind of scrubber in our exhaust, as well as farmers having to refit their tractors with the same. But as the ECO nuts go crazy blaming anyone who doesn't drive electric cars for elimination of global warming, they are also the ones who decide they want to live in the wilderness "naturally" and cut down acres of oxygen producing trees for their log home house with a wood stove for authenticity and to show their commitment to nature. And that commitment will drive them to push all the older vehicles off of the road and into the crusher. Maybe even create a bill and call it something like "Clunkers for Cash". Now THAT would be a scary bill.
 

hesutton

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I am also 17 and a new idi owner. I have turned up the pump a few and am still hoping that the engine is not going to burn down. I have the pyro sitting in my garage and it is going to be a good day when i can just look up at a pyro instead of freaking out over a melted piston.

GET THE PYRO INSTALLED!


Im tired of peopel thinking i just want speed and smoke. i know im 17 but im not dumb. i hate how i feel like peopel are hust razzin me cause im 17!
Nah, we just don't want you to make an error (a costly one at that) and sometimes we get a little over enthusiastic in making a point.;Sweet Don't feel that way. There are a lot of youger members and we want you guys to hang out and learn from the older, more experienced members. There is a huge wealth of knowledge here on these IDI's. More than anywhere else on the web.

Heath
 

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