Questions about Dana 70 wheel seals

[Cubey]

Oh and in case anyone wonders why I don't stay in my mom's house? She's a mild hoarder and her house is disgusting because she basically refuses to clean it. It has become trashed over the past 10 years from so many cats in the house. My former bed has been moved from my former twin bedroom to the "den" bedroom where I used to stay during the day, and she never uses her actual bedroom with a full (or queen?) bed, and my old bedroom is a storage room with stuff piled everywhere.

So, while there is an extra bed available in the house, she basically won't let me use it for reasons she never says.

Just as well, the house is disgusting. And I mean it. A cat puked on her stove just the other day. They puke everywhere. That's why the fairly new carpet had to be ripped out, leaving bare cement floors that are filthy because she never mops them.

Sorry, I know that's totally off topic... but that's why I stay in my RV even when at her house. Because she doesn't invite me to stay inside and it's so disgusting, I don't want to anyway with all those cats.

 

[u2slow]

Yes, that part # is the washer that has to be used between 2 6 sided hex nuts. Like this:
https://torqueking.com/product/4011/tk4011-torque-king-spindle-nut-upgrade-kit-with-socket/

No. Its the clicking/ratcheting spindle nut:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=15713&cc=1124378&jsn=525

The 2" spindle nut thread is almost a constant up to 1-ton. Lots of different ones fit.

 

[Cubey]

No. Its the clicking/ratcheting spindle nut:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=15713&cc=1124378&jsn=525

The 2" spindle nut thread is almost a constant up to 1-ton. Lots of different ones fit.

Oops.... I must have had the other part number in my clipboard (aka copy/paste) from earlier and I somehow didn't copy the one you posted when I went to Google.

Yeah, that's the "Fits: Dana 80 / Series: 61, 70" one I dug up too, available in both Dorman and Spicer.

Advance has one side's listed for $5(!!) plus there's a 20% off code. I'll have to pile in some parts to get over $25 to get free shipping, but I reckon I will. If it (and other parts) end up not fitting, I can return them all to the local store for a refund.

"Online purchases can be returned to any Advance Auto Parts store within 45 days from the date of purchase."

 

[Cubey]

I just placed this order.

I ordered 2 of the right side ratchet nuts because they're freaken $4 each! Normally they are $25-35! I'll either keep the extra as a spare, or stick it on ebay. I already have the socket for ratcheting nuts, so I don't have to buy that.

If it fits, I'll order the left side one online with the brake shoes. If it doesn't fit, I'll put both on ebay and order what does fit.

Oh, and the 12x3 shoe's universal number is 358, while the 12.13 x 3.5 is 583. (for future reference)

I grabbed the bearing packer just in case I have to do bearings too, since it was so cheap. I already have a grease gun for it, so I don't have to buy that. If I don't use it, I'll return it. Maybe the neighbor has a bearing packer I can borrow, so that's an option too. I hate manually packing bearings, so the $6 is worth it IMO.

The rest of the stuff is all really cheap too and it's all stuff I'll need for this job. I ordered the 9864S which seems to be the corect wheel seals, as discussed earlier. If they're wrong, they'll go back too. They have good reviews on Advance's site, but we'll see if they're actually any good.

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[u2slow]

I only use or re-use the steel-core axle flange gaskets. The paper ones are a PITA to clean off the next time you're in there, and no chance of re-use.

 

[Cubey]

I only use or re-use the steel-core axle flange gaskets. The paper ones are a PITA to clean off the next time you're in there, and no chance of re-use.

They have a raised area instead of being totally flat, which is what does the sealing. Reviews of the gasket say things like:

"Best of all you don't have to scrape a gasket when it's time to pull the axles."

"no leaking, weren't damaged when I had to take a wheel off again."

 

[u2slow]

They have a raised area instead of being totally flat, which is what does the sealing. Reviews of the gasket say things like:

"Best of all you don't have to scrape a gasket when it's time to pull the axles."

"no leaking, weren't damaged when I had to take a wheel off again."

Nice. I ordered Fel-pro's once and got paper ones to my surprise. They're still on my shelf...

 

[Cubey]

Nice. I ordered Fel-pro's once and got paper ones to my surprise. They're still on my shelf...

For the price, I'm not going to complain. Who knows what gaskets it has on it now anyway? Maybe I won't need the Felpros. I'd rather have them on hand than not. They can be returned if I don't need them.

 

[Cubey]

Part of your confusion is assuming that dana 70 are only duallys. They came in a single variant also, see small picture to the left. Not reading your first post close enough, I was wrong an brake size a dually should have 3.5 shoes, single full floating over 8500 3, semi float under 8500 2.5. So a f-250 would have two different seal listings. My recommendation spend a few bucks more visit a parts store, then it is less stress and time if its the wrong seal.

Check out the bottom listing, Maybe correct may not. Point is these parts lookups have all been reconfigured numerous times over 35 years. Use with caution.

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I went and posted over on another forum/board for specifically about Ford E-series vans. Someone replied there, quoting the PDF linked at the end of this post.

Here are excerpts from the PDF that matter (from sec. 22.1)

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What this shows is that Ford used 12x3 from 1980-1989, but 12-1/8 x 3-1/2 use only began in 1987. Yeah, It doesn't specify any models, beyond "school bus" but even that is in the 12x3 section, so they all used until 1987 was 12x3. I'm guessing the 3 part numbers shown under 12x3 were varying materials and/or light duty vs heavy duty.

These 12x3 shoes show all 3 of those part numbers as being interchangable:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=297338&cc=1116672&jsn=571

I went back and did parts lookups (RockAuto & O'Reilly) on 1986 and 1987 E350s; and I found that '86 has 3" only for DRW, while '87 as 3" and 3.5" for DRW,

Sooooo.. more than likely, I have 12x3 brakes, even though it was built as a cutaway chassis. Why those 3.5" Motorcraft shoes say they fit 85 E350s is beyond me. It must be an error.


http://www.icsarchive.org/icsarchiv...ck Master Parts Text/06 1980 fotpt-brakes.pdf

 

[Cubey]

Okay, question: Does anyone know if Ford ever used the ratcheting nut on DRW Dana axles? I'm sure they did on Sterling 10.25" DRW. Neither my Chilton or Haynes books mention that nut except on Sterling axles, but it never specifies SRW or DRW, just full floating.

I know they were used on D70 and D80 at some point... but for SRW only?

I might have to actually stick with the "nylok" and wedge setup, or switch to the 2 nuts+tabbed washer setup for such a heavy load.

I'd hate to have spindles, drums and wheels go flying off in one piece because the ratcheting nut isn't strong enough for the load...

 

[Cubey]

Finally an update about this (sort of).

I decided to start working on the wheel seals today. I got the axle shaft pulled, then realized I forgot to buy the 2-9/16" socket.

So. I ordered one at the local Napa for pickup tomorrow since USPS has suddenly gotten horrendous around here. At least for me personally. They have been bouncing a small 6oz first class package for over a week now, sending it to the wrong cities over and over. It even made it to the local post office here, but then they sent it off to a small town about 50 miles away. Starting to think they are screwing with me.

So anyway, it's now tarped over with a bungee cord since it's forecasted to rain/storm tomorrow. It's sitting on a new 22 ton jack stand on a cement driveway so it's good and secure. The weight is off of the jack, but I left it there to save time later

I figured out for sure that the newer ratcheting nuts can fit in place old nylok/wedge setup. Newer DRW Dana 70s/80s got them. I already have the ratchet nut socket from working on my F250's sterling wheel seal 3.5 years ago, and it's the same pattern as the Spicer/Dana ratcheting nuts. Holding up one of the ratcheting nuts, it looks like it'll fit perfectly. The research I did too says they are also 2"-16 threads like the nylok nuts so that's why. The tab on the inner part of the ratcheting nut fits into the slot on the axle that was used for the wedge. No replacing expensive one time use nylok nuts and wedges ever again if the drum has to be removed again after this.

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[Cubey]

Anyone seen that before? RTV on the inner oil seal between it and the hub? It's a FoMoCo seal I removed, likely the original. Timken inner bearing, NTN outer. Working on the RH side first right now.

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[Cubey]

RH side is done. Quite a difference when it's not covered in oil mixed with brake dust. Yep, that's the old drum. Not rusted at all and not bad inside, so I reused it.

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The ratcheting nut upgrade fit perfectly. It was hard to judge the 8 clicks back off (5 for new bearings, 8 for used) so I did it a few times to be sure I did it right. Feels firm when wiggled with just a HAIR of play I almost can't feel. Spins nicely, no noise besides the usual light scrape of one brake shoe on the drum at a certain point in rotation.

(edit: I probably adjusted it wrong, now that I'm checking videos. Darn it all. Well, since the self adjuster is new and all greased up nicely, maybe it'll work by going in reverse a few times. or I can jack it up and turn it the partial rotation back and forth that the differential allows to see if it's tight enough. dont wanna have to pull the lug nuts all off again to remove the hub cap/trim to get the axle shaft pulled again, but I might just do that)

I went ahead and greased the bearings and races to some to help them out until gear oil gets churning in the bearings. I also greased the axle tube so the seal would go on smoothly without snagging when installing the heavyass drum/spindle assembly.

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I also cleaned up the inside of the inner wheel's rim, due to being so heavily coated in oil/filth from the seal's leak. If it starts leaking again, I will be able to easily see. Pic shows it partly cleaned:

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Oh.... and the brake shoes are 12x3. That's what came off of it.

 

[lsaami]

Well, that's the end of that. My 3 ton jack isn't enough to lift the back of this thing (putting it under the rear axle to one side of the pumpkin). It does the front fine, but the back is just too much for it.

I will have to pay a shop to do it, since it makes no sense for me to buy an $900 10 ton jack. I might have to go check pawn shops, since they often have big used floor jacks.

Yes... 12-20 ron bottle jacks are cheap, but I don't trust them for such a heavy load, to be honest. Not when I have to get under it to place a jack stand too. There is no good place under an axle to place a bottle jack's little round top.

These are a thing (click) but again I really don't want to be under this thing placing a jack stand with it supported by a bottle jack. Yeah the wheels will still be on it so it can't totally fall... so i'd probably not be hurt (much) but I'd needed a change of underpants for sure.

And I'd have to go buy bigger jack stands too. If a 3 ton jack can't lift it, 3 ton stands are too small.

I tried the old Ford factory bottle jack with the long, folding extending crank handle... but even that can't lift the rear. Not sure if it was extended fully due to he axle height, but it just stopped turning. Not sure if it was original with this RV or not It could be that somebody got it from a junk yard and stuck it in here.

I will ask a neighbor if he has a 6 ton or bigger floor jack, but I doubt he does. He didn't have a creeper when I asked, because he has no paved driveway at all for using such things. He keeps offering to lend me tools, so I don't mind asking. He's not home right now though.

EDIT: I might buy one of these for a bottle jack. It's specifically made to fit bigger axles like Dana 60, 70 and 80: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bottle-Jac...Larger-Axles-Dana-60-and-Dana-80/264664706807

my 2 1/2 ton floor jack lifts the rear of my motorhome. What’s the GVWR on yours?

 

[Cubey]

my 2 1/2 ton floor jack lifts the rear of my motorhome. What’s the GVWR on yours?

11,000 lbs according to the Ford "incomplete vehicle" sticker, 11,700 lbs according to the RV conversion tag.