WMO first time advice.

[Josh Carmack]

Answering your other post here since the questions are better suited for beginners reading This thread.

Cutting with thinner can be seen as a preference, and a necessity, considering what you are willing to put up with, and the ambient temps outside.

At this very moment, I am running pure gear oil in everything, its a 80/90 gear oil that saw very limited use and was given to me for a total of 750 gals, so I ain't gonna let that go to waste. I am not cutting it with D2/RUG. I intend to run it as long as I can pure, and then switch over to my WMO sources, and as winter approaches I have no choice but to blend. I'll go back to burning the gear oil next summer.

My little Mercedes all have factory installed heat exchangers for the fuel. Even in August temps in the morning when I crank up If I do not idle long enough to put some heat in the heat exchanger the car will stumble/ run poorly as it starves for fuel waiting on the lift pump to push it through the secondary. About two or three miles down the road it starts to straighten out as the temp hand starts approaching normal. Last winter I could not get my F350 to push pure WMO (mostly 15-40 and automotive lightweight oil) through the filter at less than 30Deg. If you are running one tank, as cold temps approach you'd be fool not to mix. If I shut my IDI down on pure oil in the winter time I will be forced to pull the truck down the road to get it cranked again.

Don't attempt to run any waste fuel with a poor preglow system, you'll ruin starters and batteries trying, ask me how I know.

Fuge = Centrifuge
WMO = Waste Motor Oil
RUG = Regular Unleaded

 

[mikepotts]

paragraph 2 from his description (just a marketing ploy?)...
For the last few years, I have sold hundreds of copies of my Black Diesel Report. For even longer, I have sold dewatering filters that remove water, acid, antifreeze and other contaminants from motor oil and vegetable oils. I have had many people ask me to put together a complete, easy to use system that produces and dispenses black diesel. After much testing and trial and error as well as very valuable input from customers, I now offer my Freedom Fuel System.

 

[mikepotts]

he describes his "de-watering" sock here and near the bottom he mentions the canister style "de-water" thingy...
http://oiltofuel.com/defiforcldra.html

like i said, i dont know if his thing works, maybe its just good marketing.

edit: i just went and check his ebay feedback, over 800 with 100% positive, i wish i could get ahold of someone that has used it for a while, instead of one time use then posting feedback. have to admit, im drinking the kool-aide, about to pull the trigger.

 

[channel497]

so does the oil heating method replace the step needed to "dry" the oil to seperate the water? for instance: the utah sprayer nozzle/mister would be a redundant and useless step

 

[mikepotts]

so does the oil heating method replace the step needed to "dry" the oil to seperate the water? for instance: the utah sprayer nozzle/mister would be a redundant and useless step

you lost me with the utah sprayer...

 

[Josh Carmack]

I have been meaning to build a dewatering nozzle similar to the one you mention, just another round tuit.... it speeds up the process that I use, I have to wait on mine to boil from the bottom up, sometimes take 8hrs of heating doing it my way, that nozzle may knock it down to 2hrs I have noticed a marked improvement after I started heating all batches to 300 350 range.

 

[Josh Carmack]

Mike, another thing to keep in mind is you can build a very similar setup for the same or less money. it won't be turn key, but it can be done

 

[mikepotts]

Mike, another thing to keep in mind is you can build a very similar setup for the same or less money. it won't be turn key, but it can be done

yeah, i just got back from lowes checking on filters, gonna check ebay too, might one of his things that lay in the bottom of the barrel for water and stuff, then get the pump i linked and a few filters...

 

[mikepotts]

ive looked it over, i can get a pump kit from ebay with a suction hose and screen, discharge hose with gas pump style filler end, a 10" three filter housing to use one of his dryer elements (water, ect remover), 5 mic and 1 mic filters all for around $200... im just a little unsure if the pump will handle the load of three filters, its just made to transfer fluid, im afraid it will burn it up. then again, his kit being almost $600 shipped... if this doesnt work i would have ALOT less invested in the failure, plus i would be able to reuse the filtration setup on a centrifuge...

 

[Josh Carmack]

On the pump, I would say BUILD one from scratch, or get one with an induction motor that is designed to run continuous, that pump you linked will not last terribly long being made to process as well as transfer.
I built my pump for free, used a salvage power steering pump - driven by a washing machine motor. Used the alternator pulley off the same truck to mount on the motor with epoxy filling the center to make it fit the shaft. worked great for a long time. Had a pulley made to fit the serpentine belt that was driving the pump, after my home made one finally gave out cost was 0 dollar for the custom pulley.

 

[The FNG]

Build it! Surprise yourself and impress us all! I built mine and I have never looked back. I used a lot of bits and pieces from here and there as I could afford them. It took me a few months, but I have exactly what I want and need. A little patience and some work will save you far more money than any quick and dirty method. Spend some time to make sure what you are buying is going to work for your needs.

It will most likely be much cheaper for you to buy an oil pump and pulley set from a junk yard, a motor from a used appliance (craigslist, goodwill, re-store, etc) and take them to your local fab shop to weld them up to fit a v-belt from a Subaru AC (or similar). The end product will be 100 times better for a fraction of the cost. It just takes a little more time and work, but it is 100% worth it.

 

[Brad S.]

I'm just catching up on this last part of this thread. Gonna throw this in on the water filtering out. By using RUG/gas that has some amount of ethanol blend, my thoughts were some of the moisture that gets by the water filters would "bond" with ethanol & get burned. No diy filtering system is gonna get rid of all the water. Doesn't D2 from the pump have a minimum/allowable amount????

 

[Josh Carmack]

I'm sure there are existing standards with multiple alphabet soups that specify an allowable amount of water. The water block filters are "supposed" to be able to get rid of high amounts of dissolved water, and I can only assume they are designed to get the amounts that are higher than those specified amounts out lol. That really depends on the method in which they remove or block water, I don't see it being done with mechanical methods such as the polyester water block methods, but with a descant, it will remove dissolved amounts to a certain degree. I once read that D2, and most other forms of petroleum could dissolve approximate 1 gallon of water per 250,000 gallons before saturation, and something like 1 gallon of petroleum would saturate 1 million gallons of water. Ethanol and other alcohols on the other hand in their pure forms are pretty hard to saturate, and form azetrops fairly readily with water. In other words they are quite good at carrying a high amount of water. As much as I like using RUG, I have refrained from doing solately, because the last the additions of it have caused problems.

I added 3 gallons to an almost full tank of pure oil a couple months ago and had to change a water blocked filter the next day. I don't thing the RUG introduced the water, i think it dissolved and carried the water that was already in the tank bottom. This was before I trusted the cars to run the gear oil pure.

Addition of 1.5 gallon to a half tank of pure oil reduced power and caused hard starting in wifey's car. It dropped off cool back in June, Her car began to show trouble trying to get fuel through the secondary efficiently. The weather was some unusually cold days for June and wifey was having trouble getting the car to run above 50/60 or so without it starving for fuel. (A new fuel filter solved it, no telling how old it was), but the car had trouble starting and showed reduced power til the next fill up of pure oil.

The addition of one gallon last Saturday to my car brought back the injector knock. This was simply an experiment last Saturday, I was down to one quarter of a tank, so one gallon would be more or less 20% rug. The injector knock was back within an hour, smoke was down at idle, power was down pre boost, but unchanged after boost. Immediate throttle response was slightly faster post RUG. Piston slap, or "diesel noise" was more pronounced with RUG and sounded very close to true D2, but slightly quieter.

In many cases, I don't think my experience will eliminate my use of RUG, It does make it a lot easier to process, makes it clean up a LOT better in a fuge and makes it ten times easier to pump through my finishing filters. But I'm going to try it's performance vs D2 as a processing aid.

 

[Brad S.]

Josh do you think the IDI tolerate RUG a little better.
When I was using wmo with RUG, it seemed ok, as far as running wmo that is..???

 

[Josh Carmack]

All of mine tolerate it fine, aside from a loss of power in wifey's car as well as prolonged starting. My car has too many other issues to rule it out that RUG was the instigator, it may have brought all that back to my car because the delivery seals leak profusely on any fuel similar to D2 in viscosity. BUT until I do rule out all other causes I'll use d2 as a cutting fluid. I keep saying I'll do this and this to my car, but every time I have time, something more important comes up. In my particular case I'm trying to avoid it until I rule it out as the cause.

On another note, even with the addition of my water block goldenrod to my setup, I changed TWO filters today on little blue, and may change another before the week is out. The typical morning sluggishness was really bad this morning, even after the engine was up to enough temperature for the heat exchanger to do it's job. About 5 miles from the house I pulled over and changed the secondary because it wouldn't run faster than 20. Headed off to work albeit 20 minutes late, and got about an hour into the rt and couldn't get the car above 25MPH, had to change the secondary again, it was even loping and running rough at idle. That was my last spare.... Noticed this afternoon it may have been starving for fuel again on the way home, but I really didn't get a chance to open it up and drive it like I stole it to find out for sure. I'll head out in the morning with two more spares and cross my fingers. The second filter I changed today was an old filter that came with the car and was not sealed in a bag like a new one, so it may have been slowly absorbing water from the air as it rode around in the car. I'm hoping that was the case, cause otherwise I have to find out where the water or trash is getting introduced into my system. Thats three filters in two months for little blue. My truck on the other hand has gone many many miles on the same filter. I have actually only changed the filter twice, once right after I started burning wmo in it, and once back in the spring, both times were simply insurance, as the filters were still flowing fine when I changed them. Of course little blue gets a lot more miles and gallons though it in the same amount of time, about 4 times as much.

Like I said, RUG definitely has a place in processing, I hate processing without it, but I need to rule it our before I continue it's use.