Using vacuum to remove water from wmo..???

[Brad S.]

Listening to Sams garage saturday am, they talked about AC work & using a vacuum.
They said the vacuum would boil the water out of the AC system.
So that made me think maybe a vacuum in a wmo system might do the same thing...???? Anyone doing this or close to this..???
I know a couple people have made "super sucker" to pick up wmo and transfer it.


Back in high school a friend and me did a little experiment, during science/school fair with a vacuum pump with a heavy glass dome.
Put a beaker of water inside, pulled down a vacuum till the water started to "boil". The O2 was just leaving the water, not really boiling.
We would shut everything down, lift the dome off and drink the water. A few people were amazed we could drink boiled water seconds after.

 

[Josh Carmack]

I have been wanting to build a setup specifically for this. Another member on here mentioned they do it with transformer oil for electrical work and foaming was a big issue for them. I currently actually boil to remove water. Had to boil a batch just last night. It had 5500W of heat added for 6 hours before it stopped boiling. I was pumping some hydraulic oil into the mixing tank when I discovered it had water in what I thought was clean oil. The oil was so hot once it started going into the fuges and processing drum it made the feed pipe and fuges start smoking the oil residue off the outside surfaces it was going through. Since I managed to get water into my car tank the other day I have decided I will boil all batches, or at least insure the temperature is well above the boiling point.

I have a 120 gallon compressor tank I intend to setup for this idea. Plan on adding 1500W to the tank and pull a full vacuum with my air conditioning pump. I have already tried it with my super sucker tank, but it will not boil even on the hottest days with simply vacuum added. I am able to pull some amount of water off by drawing vacuum over night on my super sucker. I do know if we do figure out an easy way to vacuum boil then we will need to build a condenser circuit just like moonshine stills have before the line enters the pump. When I draw a vacuum on my sucker tank it will pull enough moisture through the 20 foot line that it ruins the lubricating oil in the vacuum pump. I have also though of maybe using a glass carboy or something to collect moisture in before the pump.

With the vacuum my pump is able to build, the water temperature needs to be about 120 -130 to come to a full rolling boil. I have conducted a "science" experiment with my daughters teaching them about boiling points vs pressure and can boil tap water inside a mason jar while I hold it in my hand. Depending on the strength of the vacuum pump you can boil room temperature water.

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

Just be certain the container you are using can handle the vaccum... and not fold up like a tin can. lol

Interesting idea for sure... I've got about 100 gallons of wet oil I need to dewater... and IF I could pull a vaccum on the tank, it wouldnt take much of a heat source to boil it.

Hmm...

 

[Brad S.]

The folding up thing was something that came to mind, don't know how many gallons they hold but the old propane tanks that are about 4-5 feet tall, about 12-18 inches in diameter should work ok. I think that a person could find them easy.
I'm with you Acid on the vacuum/lower temps for heating purposes.
I know ethanol plants use vacuum in the final columns to boil off ethanol at lower temps, but the temp is still pretty hot.
Josh or anyone, do you know if a water filter for air compressor systems would stand up under vacuum....????
Now just to make all this work in the correct order....

 

[Josh Carmack]

Anything that is rated for 125 or greater PSI should be able to handle a maximum vacuum. While the force is in the opposite direction, you would never be able to exceed 10 percent of the rated positive pressure. I don't see any reason why a manually emptying water separator wouldn't work. Just pull through it backwards, IE keep the airflow going in the same direction a it would in a pressure application. I know that as long as it's in pure vapor form it won't do much to stop water. An automatic emptying one may or may not work depending on how it works. Mine would not work as is, as a vacuum will suck the automatic valve open.

I know that certain tanks that are made from fiberglass, or some other synthetic tanks will collapse and separate under a vacuum due to the way they are designed.

I'm building a 500 gal super sucker from a propane tank, that will hold vacuum fine as I kept a vacuum on it for three days to ensure there were no propane vapor left before I got out the cutting torch and welder. My current sucker is a D.O.T. anhydrous ammonia/propane tank It holds 50 microns vacuum fine. The 120 gal compressor tank does worry me though, it's either 1/16th, or 3/32 thinner than your standard propane tank.

 

[Brad S.]

Is your current sucker on a running gear?
Thanks for the info on the smaller propane tanks.

 

[Josh Carmack]

Yeah, it's a 100 gallon tank that is DOT rated so it's heavier than your normal tank. It's too heavy to move even empty. Couple years ago I traded a 100 dollar pistol for a home made trailer. This is not your normal home made trailer. It is based on a MH axle that was cut down to make a 4X8 with with fenders. It's way overbuilt for most trailers it's size. Only gripe with it is the builder retained the MH springs with the axle so it bounces and rides incredibly rough until you load it down with three to four thousand pounds. One the same note, it is an incredible trailer for hauling really really heavy loads. I have a 275 gal tote and the 100 gallon tank mounted on it. I will retire that once I get a round tuit to finish my 500 gallon setup. I traded another 100 dollar bill for two MH axles that were converted to ford 8 lug patterns with 16" wheels. Those will be the underside of my 500gal sucker. That setup will be an integrated frame with a tool box and hose reel. The hose reel will just be a home made way to roll the hoses up neatly when I am finished. I have been on more than one run where I had to blow my 100 gal tank into the tote on the pickup, and that takes a lot of time.

 

[The FNG]

Yup, we do it for work. We filter our pad-mount transformers that way. We first filter particles to 10 micron or so, heat the oil to about 130-160 degrees F, and pull a vacuum of about 1.15 torr. The idea is that vacuum lowers the pressure on the oil and boils it at a lower temp so you don't compromise the integrity of the oil (burn it). It allows us to remove the dissolved gasses and water much easier. It actually does not "suck" stuff out of the oil. It may be difficult to do with WMO. You would have to keep a close eye on it or you would foam it all out of your canister.