Strange Issue and question

[asmith]

A very strange thing happened to me today. My ignition cylinder broke. I cannot turn the truck off with the key, but i can start it. I can freely turn the key all the way from just the accessories on to the point where it cranks the starter with no resistance and nothing changes. If i go past that point it will engage the starter. I can pull the key out and the truck stays running, I have to pop the hood and pull the wire off the injection pump to kill the engine. the other strange thing is everything in the cab stays on. the radio stays on the odometer is powered up and lights on the dash. So I have to unplug the batteries. here is my question. how do i glow my plugs in the morning to get this beast started for work, and how do I not burn them out? also do you think they are getting power the whole time I am driving? the WTS light is not on.

 

[bbjordan]

I had this problem years ago with my first diesel. I just fixed the ignition cylinder right away.
It appears that it is stuck in the run position. In theory, as soon as you connect the batteries when it is cold, the plugs will glow. Once the WTS light goes out, try and start it. I assume you still have the automatic GP system and not a manual system. You mentioned the WTS does not work, but have you tried it when the engine cold? The GP controller will stop glowing the plugs automagically. You should be able to watch the voltage gauge drop when the plugs are glowing.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Ignition lock cylinder and ignition switch is not the same thing on these trucks. Drop the pastics on the steering column, locate the actual ignition switch (two fat yellow wires going to it plus a bunch of others in variety of colors and sizes), remove ignition switch from steering column but leave harness plugged in. Use a #1 phillips screw driver to move the slider that switches the contacts inside it - you should be able to turn the truck on and off just fine (you can also try starting it, just keep in mind the spring inside the switch is kinda strong so good grip is needed on both the switch and the screwdriver). If that's no buenp and the slider just flops around in there then you need a new ignition switch.

On the other hand if the switch checks out then you got an issue with the ignition lock cylinder and/or the mechanism that connects it to the ignition switch itself - pull the lock cylinder and see what's going on. With the cylinder removed you can use a #3 flat blade screwdriver to turn the mechanism to inspect it for proper operation.

 

[asmith]

I had this problem years ago with my first diesel. I just fixed the ignition cylinder right away.
It appears that it is stuck in the run position. In theory, as soon as you connect the batteries when it is cold, the plugs will glow. Once the WTS light goes out, try and start it. I assume you still have the automatic GP system and not a manual system. You mentioned the WTS does not work, but have you tried it when the engine cold? The GP controller will stop glowing the plugs automagically. You should be able to watch the voltage gauge drop when the plugs are glowing.

yeah unfortunately I cant get one til tomorrow morning and I would like to go to work today yeah when i was starting it yesterday I never saw the WTS light come on, the truck was warm, but normally it would come on for a little bit, I guess it could have gone out, byt the time I made it back into the truck cab yes stock Glow plug system, all new thanks to oldbull. we will see what happens today.

Ignition lock cylinder and ignition switch is not the same thing on these trucks. Drop the pastics on the steering column, locate the actual ignition switch (two fat yellow wires going to it plus a bunch of others in variety of colors and sizes), remove ignition switch from steering column but leave harness plugged in. Use a #1 phillips screw driver to move the slider that switches the contacts inside it - you should be able to turn the truck on and off just fine (you can also try starting it, just keep in mind the spring inside the switch is kinda strong so good grip is needed on both the switch and the screwdriver). If that's no buenp and the slider just flops around in there then you need a new ignition switch.

On the other hand if the switch checks out then you got an issue with the ignition lock cylinder and/or the mechanism that connects it to the ignition switch itself - pull the lock cylinder and see what's going on. With the cylinder removed you can use a #3 flat blade screwdriver to turn the mechanism to inspect it for proper operation.

Thanks for this info, I am headed out right now to look. I knew they were separate components, but this will help me diagnose it further. I will get back to you.
I am about to head out, and take a look, but does the switch just drop out the bottom? I already have the plastic off the bottom from looking at it yesterday.

 

[asmith]

ok so after further investigation the actual switch seems to be working fine. It seems that the slider the connects the key cylinder to the switch is broken. the key will push it forward, but will not pull it back. so the slider gets stuck in the forward position and allows the key to turn freely. I am now on the hunt for a diagram of the steering wheel.

I took the cover off and and undid the bolt, but the wheel is stuck on there real good. do I need a puller to get it off, or just set down my purse and pull it harder/use a BFH on the backside?
pictures will be up in a little bit.

 

[Garbage_Mechan]

Definitly need a puller on the steering wheel

 

[Knuckledragger]

Don't hit the wheel, that just makes it mad. If you can't get it loose by removing the nut and wiggling the wheel (grab it at 3 and 9 o'clock then push toward dash with one hand and pull toward you with the other a few times to loosen), use a puller. If you have a tilting column, the turn signal switch may have to be removed to get to the actuator rod. Be careful to make a diagram of the wires as you remove them.

Ford used cheesy crap for the actuator and tumbler, probably to avoid needing lubrication late in life, but the pieces are brittle and break easily. Sometimes for no reason.

 

[asmith]

ok well supermotors is not working right now, so pictures will have to wait. From my reading it seems that the actuator, part number F2DZ3E723A is the most likely culprit. It could also be the lower actuator, part number F0DZ3E715A. I need to take apart the steering column to find out, and am having a hard time finding instructions for that. May just start tearing into it and see what happens

 

[OLDBULL8]

This may help. If you need more holler. I'd have to scan them. It's from an 89 manual, but there all pretty much the same.

 

[crash-harris]

That cast aluminum piece in the column is notorious for breaking and it's much easier when it's cold. You can remove the shroud around the column and manipulate the steel rod (mostly flat) with a pair of pliers in conjunction with the key to get the truck started and turned back off until you can replace it. If you do the work in cab, get comfy and have a heat source with you, otherwise, pull the column and work on it in a heated space (warm is important this time of year!). It'll be easier to do if you don't have a tilt column. Take your time and pay attention to how things come apart.

 

[asmith]

That cast aluminum piece in the column is notorious for breaking and it's much easier when it's cold. You can remove the shroud around the column and manipulate the steel rod (mostly flat) with a pair of pliers in conjunction with the key to get the truck started and turned back off until you can replace it. If you do the work in cab, get comfy and have a heat source with you, otherwise, pull the column and work on it in a heated space (warm is important this time of year!). It'll be easier to do if you don't have a tilt column. Take your time and pay attention to how things come apart.

That piece is only on the brick nose trucks, I have replaced one of those too. on the OBS it is replaced by a plastic piece that is much harder to get to. looking online it looks like i have to take the steering column out. everyone has said it is actually easier to just swap columns , but then you dont know when the new piece is going to break either.

Also I am in CA. It is 70 and sunny out right now. No worries about needing a heat source.

As of right now I am waiting for the parts to arrive. cant get them from a parts store. when I get them i will try and a do a quick write up to show the process.

 

[crash-harris]

Good deal, and I almost envy you guys in so cal for the weather, but not the vehicle restrictions

 

[asmith]

California is an amazing state. Beautiful and rich in resources, it is just the liberal idiots in the bay area and Los Angels have ruined the state for everyone. They have destroyed our freedoms and taxed us to death.

Most of the clean air stuff I actually agree with in theory, but then lobbyist and retards get involved and make it nonsensical, overly expensive and a pain in the butt, just so they can get their dollar. the clean air standards are great, they have made a huge difference in the air in southern CA, but in my opinion it shouldn't matter how you meet those restrictions. is your car passes the sniffer great on your way, but nooooo CARB gets involved and you have to have this and that and you cant do this, and your special cat has to go through our testing, so even though it does the exact same thing as the other cat that did not go through testing, it cost four times as much and is the only one you can use... all your smog parts have to have a CARB number on them or be OEM otherwise you fail, doesn't matter if you actually pass on the numbers or not. BS!! anyway my rant is over.

 

[asmith]

so I had a big post typed out and it failed to post here is a shortened version.

most likely swapping to a ZF5 soon from my totaled truck in sig. so instead of going to the trouble of pulling this column apart, i will continue to use it as is and swap to a manual column when the time comes.

here is the actual ignition switch. I just use this by hand to start and turn off the truck.

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the post in the top pick slides into this slot which is moved back and forth by the key. It is connected to the key by a plastic slide. that slide is broken and that is why the key does nothing in my truck.

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hope this helps