Static timing question

[chillman88]

Hey all,

A couple months ago I picked up a 91 F350 in Texas with the 7.3 and ZF5. It's been off the road over the winter but ran fine on the trip back to NY from TX. 175k miles on the odometer. She has definitely been cobbed somewhat, I'm not sure what all was done to it...

This truck is a dog. I know these aren't racecars but it can barely get out of it's own way. It's pedal to the floor and pray the traffic slows down for me.

I've been fixing little things over the past few months, return lines and o-rings being the most recent.

I attached a picture of the timing marks, when I drove it back, the pump was rotated almost all the way towards the driver side. I have tried to get it back to static timing but the lines you see now are as close as I could get it.

I ran it down the road yesterday and got a bunch of whiteish blueish smoke. I'm just hoping to get it close-ish, I can't afford to get it timed correctly yet.

It doesn't sound very clattery, but I wasn't getting any smoke before. I could always try putting it back, I'm just trying to get a little more pep so she's not miserably slow. I went back to driving my small block gasser and felt like I had an extra 150hp with that 220hp gas motor...

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[SirRea63l]

You really cannot trust those marks, at 175k miles I doubt it is the original IP and the replacement would have different marks.

 

[chillman88]

I know they won't be "right" but from what I've seen most of these trucks have the lines "close" when properly timed, I'm pretty sure the injectors are original, I kinda get the feeling a new IP was tossed in just to sell it.

 

[icanfixall]

Welcome to the forum. From the looks of this pump pic this is a long ways from a new pump to sell this rig. When you look at the pump from the radiator does it appear to be leaning towards the passenger fender? If so my guess is the housing, pump and gear were removed and installed as one piece. that usually causes the injection pump and cam gear to mismatch timing marks. Its a proven fact we just can't see the cam and injection pump gear timing marks to insure they are correctly aligned.
PLEASE DO NOT take anything apart yet to fix this. I'm not positive you have the issue I posted about yet.

 

[franklin2]

There is a rough way to get it somewhat close in timing. There should be two different wires going to the pump, one makes it run, the other is the cold start advance. Rig the cold start advance wire so you can hot wire it to the battery.

Get it running. Touch the advance wire to the battery. The engine should start making what they call the "powerstroke rattle" when touch the wire to 12v. It should quit when you take the wire off. If it does this it means you are close. If you never get the rattle you are a little retarded, you can turn the pump just a tiny bit and try again. If you get the rattle all the time then you are too advanced.

 

[chillman88]

If you never get the rattle you are a little retarded...

We'll that explains a LOT haha

There is a rough way to get it somewhat close in timing. There should be two different wires going to the pump, one makes it run, the other is the cold start advance. Rig the cold start advance wire so you can hot wire it to the battery.

Get it running. Touch the advance wire to the battery. The engine should start making what they call the "powerstroke rattle" when touch the wire to 12v. It should quit when you take the wire off. If it does this it means you are close. If you never get the rattle you are a little retarded, you can turn the pump just a tiny bit and try again. If you get the rattle all the time then you are too advanced.

This was my plan, I just haven't really had much decent weather. I'm not entirely sure what the "powerstroke rattle" sounds like honestly. Isn't it more of a "clacking/clatter" sound?

 

[chillman88]

Welcome to the forum. From the looks of this pump pic this is a long ways from a new pump to sell this rig. When you look at the pump from the radiator does it appear to be leaning towards the passenger fender? If so my guess is the housing, pump and gear were removed and installed as one piece. that usually causes the injection pump and cam gear to mismatch timing marks. Its a proven fact we just can't see the cam and injection pump gear timing marks to insure they are correctly aligned.
PLEASE DO NOT take anything apart yet to fix this. I'm not positive you have the issue I posted about yet.

Ok so let me clarify something that might explain my thoughts.

I actually purchased the vehicle from a "rebuilder". It was a scrap yard that happens to sell used vehicles as well. A friend of mine found it and looked it over for me. The problem is he's more of a "it runs so it's fine" kind of person. I'd rather have it run RIGHT than just run.

I figured if there was an issue with the pump they probably would have put a used one on. The injectors either have a little rust or the factory grey paint. This truck has butt splices throughout the wiring harness. The blower motor wiring was CUT AT THE FUSEBOX and the lead was wired to an electric pump with NO FUSE! The passenger headlight is glued in the housing because the clip is missing. The vacuum pump and ac compressor are held in with bulk hardware type grade 8 bolts and stacks of washers.

My point is it's anyone's guess at this point, someone hacked a bunch of stuff so I can't really trust anything was done right.

 

[chillman88]

It's supposed to be almost 70 here tomorrow, I'll probably mess with it some more but I'll try to at least take a video so y'all can give me input on how it sounds.

 

[icanfixall]

So please try to tell us of take a pic of the injection pump from the radiator looking towards the firewall.

 

[Macrobb]

Just advance it a little bit and go from there. If you're getting blue/white smoke, you are way retarded, like 5+ degrees.

As you advance it, a bit at a time, you'll feel it get stronger, then become really clattery and feel like it loses power. Then, retard it.

As long as you are getting white smoke (ever), you are retarded.

 

[chillman88]

So please try to tell us of take a pic of the injection pump from the radiator looking towards the firewall.

Actually took this last night with the other picture but it wasn't as clear so I hadn't uploaded it. This was the best I could get leaning over the radiator last night.

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[chillman88]

I fired it up and took this video. Cold advance was still on. I pretty much started it and started recording.

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Here's a picture of the IP from the radiator.

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Then I loosened the top 4 lines and got the marks a tiny bit closer.

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[icanfixall]

Thats the wrong pump for this engine. The throttle lever on our injection pumps do not have that "thing" sticking up that your return springs are connected to. Our return spring connects to the throttle shaft ball end and then way down to the notch at the bottom of the fast idle solenoid bracket. It MUST be the double spring to be compliant with any DOT inspection. You do have the double spring.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

That "thing" sticking up is where the top of the kickdown linkage goes when you have a c6 transmission. Since you don't have a c6 and one wasn't available in 91, it's off of an older truck. It isn't permanent, it comes off like the FIPL, or the vacuum (tvv?) connector for the c6 does.

 

[chillman88]

Huh... now I'm wondering if it's even a 7.3... maybe someone tossed in a 6.9.

Anyone know if there's anyone closer to me than Mel that does timing? I'm about halfway between Rochester and Syracuse New York. Mel is about 6 hours away one way. Mel is the closest I saw in the registry.

How does it sound in the video? It just sounds like a diesel to me I haven't noticed much audible difference in moving the pump at all. I'm going to have to put it on the road in a couple months. My current daily driver is falling apart.

I'd like to "eventually" get a set of injectors and those new return rails from R&D but I can't afford it yet. I'm assuming I'll need a new pump too if I do the injectors.