Newbies and dust farters!

[6.9poweredscout]

Id love to pour the cash into my IDI in the terra, make the nastiest, loudest, smokey-ist , frame twisting, tire shredding, and full pullin machine anyones ever seen. But thers a lot of well, maybes, and quite possiblys I'm not willing to spend my money on. In all reality id like a turbo, but what I do with it, I won't take full advantage of it. The scout behaves well in the woods. It will idle up and over whatever I point it at and still manage to spin all 4 37 inch tires in the mud with ease. I want to try different things, wouldn't know I love oreo ice cream if I only stuck to vanilla. My next mission, a 4 door long bed IH pickup with a DT466 that make the cummins guys spontaneiously crap themselves when they see it coming in their general direction. Am I going to dump top fuel dragster amounts into this truck?? Hell no, I've seen very respectable 466 tractors clean house on an average persons budget. There's a "hot rod" crowd that know how to make a big bang for a little buck. All I want to accomplish is a reliable truck I could use/tow with on the street, then take to the fair and make them dodge boys cry themselves to sleep. Well I guess we will all see what happens when I catch up on my debts and start to gather parts. I've been warned, notified and threathened to be kicked off my beloved BinderPlanet because I was a cocky kid that had to poke fun at any GM swap, I've since learned the wealth of knowledge I aquired from that site wasn't worth losing over someone ruining their own truck. My 6.9 build thread has the most views on the diesel forum there, guess I did something right. The knowledge I've gathered from you oilburners I couldn't find anywhere else, from people assisting me with parts,supplying performance "mooseparts" and offering their phone numbers for me to call them and waste their time while I can't figure out why my truck is acting up I can't thank all of you enough, my scout wouldn't run half as good as it does now if I didn't find this site.

-Jon

 

[jhnlennon]

Geez, its just an internet forum

 

[NapaBavarian]

Back on track

The IDI is a low RPM motor with heavy internals, it is a beast, strong, able to move mountians, when it came out it would do everything a 460 would do for half the fuel, and the fuel at that time likely cost 80% of the cost of gasoline.

Take a look at this, granted it's the newer PSD rod, and the Cummins is misleading because there are only 6 in the engine, not 8, that beefeyness, and heavier conrods and pistons all create rotating mass, twice every revolution the mass of the piston must come to a complete stop and then start up again in the other direction, that takes some serious energy. This can also limit higher RPM use as the energy goes up on the square of RPM.

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The advantage the Cummins has to overcome this is the abilty to take stupid high boost, dyno numbers and tractor/sled pulls with the Dmax are great, but do the internals hold up as well? It's a race truck, who cares!

I'm sure Mel could better address the IP issue, I understand it has some limitations, it can make more power than you'll ever need, but not enough to spank a Ferarri.

I'm curious to see what a high RPM cam could do for us, nothind through the roof, just move the RPM band up a few hundred or a thousand, but someone else will likely be trying this out, I just don't need it, I'll be going type4 when I can, my '77 build is for economy and torque.

If you want to build a race engine I'm not sure I'd chose an IDI, given unlimited funds you could make it go like snot and I'd love to try that someday, but with all that work I could do intake, exhaust, and a Hypermax programer on my D-max and still come out ahead with a truck I can drive every day without breaking, and spend the money left over on a well built torque monster IDI, the whole idea of turning a chicken into a pig when you could just buy a pig in the first place makes me

 

[NapaBavarian]

Po' boy...That made me hungry!

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[icanfixall]

Seems like things have changed terrible here with this new member and I wonder why..... I enjoyed his information that just 20 miles from me there is a cam builder that will make something big for our motors but... Its costing $1800.00. Thats out of most members possibility to afford. Its not for me but its hard to justify that kind of expense with an unknown ending. I may drop in that shop and talk with them because its so close to me and I didn't know of it... As for having a truck in Diesel Power magazine... Why yes I did... And what a surprise that was. Others here have had their rigs in the same magazine too. I carefully do planty of R&D work on my motors. Then I post the findings both good and bad. I really don't want others to make some of the mistakes building that I have. I have never boasted about my horse power or torque... Why... Because its not important. Its just a number and I really have not run my motor on a dyno yet but it will someday. I would have done it last month but I want to shim my injectors and install my Moose pump for the tests. Surely I could also install one of my hypermax intercoolers but thats waiting for some welding on the Banks intake hat. I feel if I can run 85 mph in double overdrive at a 1.96 final ratio and still get 18.9 mpg then the hp is there. Anyone can read what I have done to make hp in my motor. Some have pm me asking for more info and the "what about this" but the answers are all here for all to see. As some above have posted... Maybe this candle burned out too soon. I really hope not but.. Something did turn in the postings that made me feel like an attack was happening. We have been thru them before and probably will have them in the future too. But we as a community will surfive this and future issues. I know I would be lost if this site was to close down for goods. Way too many great members here all helping others for really nothing... All I ever feel is important is a thankyou and the trust of others. And yes... a very few members have really taken avantage me over but that part of being who I am. I will turst you first. Then If you do me wrong its on you. I only give you one chance to do wrong to me. I hope I have not offended anyone and if I have a simple pm is all I ask. I would do the same if I felt someone offended me. A public attack killing an member here is never warranted. A few months ago I was owed something of very little value by a known great member here. I talked to that member several times over many months about it. I was told he had called and left plenty of phone messages to me.... Well.. When I was installing mt new computer I found out that with Verizon phone and computer service to my home I was paying for a voice mailbox... But I knew nothing about it nor did I ever answer it. This wouldn't allow my fax machine to connect. I was really wondering where this member was leaving all these phone messages and felt maybe I ws crazy cause my message center next to my phone had nothing on it from him.... Boy was I angry at Verizon.... They sure wanted me to keep what I never used and offered to help me get all my messages.... No thankyou.... In the end all worked out fine. I got what I really needed and the wifey was happy again... For a short time....

 

[jperecko]

damn this has gotta be the first serious case of someone joining the band that I have noticed here. funny stuff.

It would be great to see his concepts come to light but lets just say I am not holding my breath

 

[timothyr1014]

as a young'n to this group, there is one rule that seems to get taught early here.....respect.
I can honestly say from all apperances the "old-timers" with "conventional wisdom" in this group have no problem being PROVEN wrong....but the key is PROVEN, and to have the respect to respectfully disagree.

I know for me personally there are a few things I would love to try with my IDI that many have said will not work well...In other applications I have done these ideas have yielded excellent results, and I believe the same could be true for my IDI's...my point is I have heard and read why people believe it wont, and I see and acknowledge their reasons...this does not change my belief of how I can make it work, but it does put me in a position that I will not open my mouth making claims of something I do not know for fact (as in actually seen and experienced).....when I'm done, and if it works, it will be a hey check this out...if the outcome is not as good when someone else tries to go this road there will be experience to offer.

My point, quite simply is to all the "old timers" with "conventional wisdom" (mel, russ, calvin, icanfixall and many many others) - THANK YOU - for being wise, but not stubborn, and sharing you wisdom so freely; its great to hang out with a group of guys who know alot, but are still willing to learn.

 

[Goofyexponent]

Tell me why the IDI can't make power.

It's mainly the design on the head. It has an internal pre-cup that starts the combustion process.....it's like this..

The injector squirts a bit of fuel into the pre cup when the piston is at or about TDC compression stroke. The flame starts there, and carries out into the cylinder forcing the piston down.....creating heat. The heads contain a lot of this heat and have a bit of trouble getting rid of it....heat is your answer.

If you could build a set if direct injected heads, de-compress the cylinders..... use a thicker head gasket and shave the pistons down a bit, you would have an animal that could take a little more abuse..

You need a pretty good balance of cool (the cooler the better) incoming air, and match that with an appropriate amount of fuel to get the most efficient amount of power without wasting anything.

More power means more fuel. More fuel means more cool air. More cool air means more heat from the combustion process. More heat from the combustion process means more heat the antifreeze has to get rid of...

At the end of the day, heat is your answer from what I have read on here.....posts from stand up guys like Towcat.

guys-over the years I have seen more than one newbie drop in and tell us that he has the ability to unlock the performance potential of "XYZ" motor just by throwing this part and that part into there and "presto" you now have a fire breathing animal of a motor. The bluster of his secret only increases by the day. I've seen plenty of these guys in real life also.

I hear that.....When this part is identified......I need to know where to buy it, cause I got my ass handed to me by a Cummins today....should have put HIS **** in the lake when I had the chance!!

 

[hesutton]

Geez, its just an internet forum

To some it is, to others it is a brotherhood. I've known many of these guys personally for years. I've met them, worked on their trucks with them, played with their kids, shared food, fun, and spent time with them. These guys are good people with an honest and deep knowledge of these old Ford diesels.

I come here to enjoy the company of friends I only get to see once a year or so. The trucks are nice and all, but, if it were just trucks, I'd would only come here if I had a problem.

Heath

 

[timothyr1014]

X2......I have not had the oppertunity to meet many of the guys personally, but the sense of community here goes far beyond a simple forum...

 

[Agnem]

We do need young guys and fresh ideas! Yes, there will be resistance, the "I told you so's" and "don't waste your money" responses, but INSTANT respect comes to anyone regardless of age who brings an answer to the table and not just the question. Why just this past year, we got a new member who is now making firewall reinforcement brackets. A few have sucessfully dyno'ed. We have real numbers for a change. There is incremental movement. And that's how progress is made. Nobody is going to dump $10K into an engine, but if 10 guys, each prove a $1000 mod made a difference, THEN that is how "what works best" is accomplished, and the Golden Mule (OK, or Moose ) is built. There are still lots of venues to explore. We still need proof of concept on things like ball-bearing turbo's, A/R tweaks, custom manifolds, dual turbo's, exactly WHAT head gasket IS the best. Can we end the Felpro/OEM/Victor debate? Who will try copper? Water injection, Drugs? Ceramic coatings, piston treatments, what is the new max boost for X amount off a piston? All these "little" things still need a subject matter expert or "wizard". Somebody who did it, and lived to tell about it. We've had a few try. The really agressive attempts... like Barney's white truck, guys like this tried, suceeded, and then failed. Why? Durability was an issue. Why? We don't have all the answers, and with each failed attempt, there is that much more resistance to try again. The new guys who didn't watch the failures are the ones we need to see try again. Only they can proceed without that nagging feeling in the back of their mind. So we need guys like Abull78 to come in, ask, question everything, assume nothing, and respectfully give us some push back on our long held beliefs, but please... please.... don't dream unless your ready to wake up with a *** of money in your hand. Us old fogies only get our jollies sticking dollar bills in the old ladies underwear. If we can't touch, watching really isn't that much fun.

 

[kas83]

No, none of Mr. Bull's ranting and attacking of Calvin was necessary. No, none of the "bait threads" posted were necessary.

Yeah, it will take a ton of money to build a super IDI. More than I paid my four years at college for tuition/books/food/room&board. But, lets be honest. Folks who build motors, projects, and actually finish them don't start threads like this. They post about what they did and how they did it and provide some nice photos....... Not silly "baiting" posts trying to start a fight or prove how stupid we are and how smart he is. It's not a huge secret that Hypermax can build you a super IDI, but you better be ready to spend $30,000+ and be able to tolerate the potential catasrophic failure of said "investment."

Heath

I'm probably gonna get my ass chewed for this, but Heath, you are seriously not a gearhead if you think this is an 'investment', or if you're comparing your college education expense to what this motor build might cost. There is no price on making power, there is no price on the satisfaction of a completed build, and you my friend, should know that first hand. You have put more money into your truck than most on this site have, in the name of having a powerful truck and a project.

That CTD that Abull built probably cost 15k easy. Duramax and PSD guys are known for spending 20k on their builds easy. Why can't someone come into our arena and dump the same amount of money into an IDI? Obviously, given that he's built a killer truck in the past, he's not afraid to spend money that he knows he's going to recoup at the end. Similar to you, Heath, and several others on here. But, most of the users on here are into IDI's since they're cheap, reliable, and easy to work on. I've built my fair share of hi-po CTD's myself, never to the extent of Abull, but I know what it's like to spend money on a project to make power, and not get a return on the monetary investment.

So, in the continuation of this thread, I want the hard, concrete answers, as to why an IDI can't make the power. Fueling, rpm, old design are all things mentioned when this issue comes up. 6.2 GM's are making 300+ at the wheels, why can't something with larger displacement do the same? Obviously those guys have pushed them, and figured out how to do it, why can't we?

Ban me if you like, I really don't care. The users of this board are very knowledgable and helpful, but are too set in their ways, and refuse to think outside the box. I have the utmost respect for many of the users here, but think that many should open their eyes to the technology in todays marketplace, and see how we could use it to our advantage.

 

[fury9]

hey fellas, the guy was proly drunk and he probably don't want to check the site because he made an ass of himself. But I agree with all yall 7 days and he proly still won't be here again. so just chalk it up. Now on to the mechanical inj. for the IDI lol.

 

[burtcheca]

I don't know much about diesel engines even I work all day on top of my diesel tractor, or hauling stuff with my diesel truck or delivering or getting things with my diesel van. I'm just a member here but I tell you why. This is a place where those that know a lot help those like me that are still learning the basics. I have not been laughed at or ridiculed because I'm ignorant of many things. I've seen so many times people writing a note when in need of assistance and minutes later get important information and guidance on how to solve the problem. I see also the appreciation and care for each other many have in this group. Sometimes looks like a family, or members of the same classroom for years. I would like to see it that way for many more years. When someone comes like he knows better than anybody, and challenges or insult some of us, is offending ALL of us. I believe in new opportunities also, my Lord gives me new opportunities every morning, after His pardon He offers me power to live a life that gives Him honor, but it's good for me to go to those I offended and make things right. Abull78 you have that option too, if you want, only if you want.
Burt, a bitterclinger Florida *******.

 

[david85]

I see nothing wrong with how he was handled. He was warned about the tone of his posts and instead of climbing down, he ramped up his attack - even after being warned that he was attacking the mod himself. Bye-bye....

Fresh ideas - good
Fresh attitude - no thanks