My Big Blue Ox build....

[LCAM-01XA]

Easy and Dana gears do NOT belong in the same sentence. OR even the same paragraph. The Dana has the carrier preload shims under the inner bearing races, meaning every darn time you need to mess with the shims you'll need to pull the bearings - if you were thinking of reusing what bearings you have there now, you can forget that unless you have the $400 puller set with the external collars. Also the pinion depth shim is in the housing under the outer race of the larger pinion bearing, good chance you'll destroy the oil baffler while taking said race out to get at the shims, and baffler thickness is a factor in determining the proper shim stack. And naturally you will need shim kit for both the carrier and the pinion...

I'd just leave the 4.10 Dana alone if it's in good shape, and switch the rear 3.55s over to 4.10s - now that is an EASY job, the Sterling carrier preload shims are external so if you need to mess with them there is zero need for setup bearings like the Dana calls for, and it being a Sterling you can just drop the new pinion in as is (switch races to the ones that match the new pinion if you're not going all new) with its factory shim and then drop the new ring gear right onto your existing carrier with its factory side shims and 9 times out of 10 the gear pattern comes out perfect.

 

[riotwarrior]

Easy and Dana gears do NOT belong in the same sentence. OR even the same paragraph. The Dana has the carrier preload shims under the inner bearing races, meaning every darn time you need to mess with the shims you'll need to pull the bearings - if you were thinking of reusing what bearings you have there now, you can forget that unless you have the $400 puller set with the external collars. Also the pinion depth shim is in the housing under the outer race of the larger pinion bearing, good chance you'll destroy the oil baffler while taking said race out to get at the shims, and baffler thickness is a factor in determining the proper shim stack. And naturally you will need shim kit for both the carrier and the pinion...

I'd just leave the 4.10 Dana alone if it's in good shape, and switch the rear 3.55s over to 4.10s - now that is an EASY job, the Sterling carrier preload shims are external so if you need to mess with them there is zero need for setup bearings like the Dana calls for, and it being a Sterling you can just drop the new pinion in as is (switch races to the ones that match the new pinion if you're not going all new) with its factory shim and then drop the new ring gear right onto your existing carrier with its factory side shims and 9 times out of 10 the gear pattern comes out perfect.

Lucky me....nope no puller tool except several expensive bearing splitters which do fit.

I have a carrier out and will likely assemble it and test fit..test patterns...used gears give wee bit more leeway.

It just has to get me through winter for now. Little to occasional use ...no OFF ROADING.

The second 60 I own is torn down for complete rebuild... earings seal king pins etc.

Ya easy and Dana are not usually in same sentence..but quick n dirty are....

3.55 offers better fuel economy for me right now compqred to 4.10 plus not towing heavu iff at all.

Will see and report back with what I get.

Thanks for looking.

 

[IDIoit]

did you measure the backlash before you removed the carrier?

 

[riotwarrior]

did you measure the backlash before you removed the carrier?

Nope dont care carrier from other axle

 

[LCAM-01XA]

did you measure the backlash before you removed the carrier?

Funny you should mention that - I not only check the backlash, but also paint the gears and check the overall mesh pattern as well. Always good to know what you're starting with.

Riot, you mean you can actually fit a bearing splitter behind the carrier bearings? On all of our carriers (two LSDs and at least two opens) there's practically no lip on the inner race for the splitter to catch onto. Come to think of it, I should try pulling a bearing by the rollers, that's what the expensive tool kit does but it also keeps the outer race on the bearing as a means ti keep the rollers from exploding all over the place.

 

[IDIoit]

Funny you should mention that - I not only check the backlash, but also paint the gears and check the overall mesh pattern as well. Always good to know what you're starting with.

Riot, you mean you can actually fit a bearing splitter behind the carrier bearings? On all of our carriers (two LSDs and at least two opens) there's practically no lip on the inner race for the splitter to catch onto. Come to think of it, I should try pulling a bearing by the rollers, that's what the expensive tool kit does but it also keeps the outer race on the bearing as a means ti keep the rollers from exploding all over the place.

im no expert, but the only time i use the paint is when pinion depth is messed with.
the 10.5 i just did, i chunked the R&P pretty good, 3 teeth on the ring gear needed a vacation.
i bought another on craigslist for pretty cheap, but it was an open diff. w/ 3.73 like the one i broke.
pulled the LS carrier out of diff A, changed bearings installed ring gear, installed with the same back lash.
only driven it about 20 miles, but i rode it hard, and everything seems AOK
gotta drop some friction modifier in it in the AM and top off.
but then again, i could see the wear pattern, and it looked good

 

[riotwarrior]

Funny you should mention that - I not only check the backlash, but also paint the gears and check the overall mesh pattern as well. Always good to know what you're starting with.

Riot, you mean you can actually fit a bearing splitter behind the carrier bearings? On all of our carriers (two LSDs and at least two opens) there's practically no lip on the inner race for the splitter to catch onto. Come to think of it, I should try pulling a bearing by the rollers, that's what the expensive tool kit does but it also keeps the outer race on the bearing as a means ti keep the rollers from exploding all over the place.

To be frank....

I was going to rinstall the 410 set on carrier back into same front axle...the one on saw horses NOT in the truck.

Now I may just pull the 4.10 carrier and pinion from the axle in truck...and try fitting 3.55 in there...if pattern and backlash ok run it till I finish building the 60 on saw horses.

I really do not feel like swapping a rear axle due to expense of ubolts and so forth.

If I keep 3.55 better mileage...

Decisons decisions...

Could swap a carrier and pinion 4.10 set jnto my rear axle and not remove the axle.

Ugh...its why I shave my head...save.pain of tearing it out by roots

 

[IDIoit]

Could swap a carrier and pinion 4.10 set jnto my rear axle and not remove the axle.

how in the hell are you going to remove the carrier with the axles in place
OAHHHH you mean the entire differential!
you got the specs needed for this job?
i have them on the proverbial tap.

not a bad site to have in your favorites.
http://www.differentials.com/technical-help/set-up-specs

 

[LCAM-01XA]

im no expert, but the only time i use the paint is when pinion depth is messed with.
the 10.5 i just did, i chunked the R&P pretty good, 3 teeth on the ring gear needed a vacation.
i bought another on craigslist for pretty cheap, but it was an open diff. w/ 3.73 like the one i broke.
pulled the LS carrier out of diff A, changed bearings installed ring gear, installed with the same back lash.
only driven it about 20 miles, but i rode it hard, and everything seems AOK
gotta drop some friction modifier in it in the AM and top off.
but then again, i could see the wear pattern, and it looked good

Wait, so you swapped just the ring gear, an left the old pinion in place? From what I know gearsets are machined in pairs, that's why you can't buy just a ring gear or a pinion separately. So if you mixed and matched... Idk, I'd err on the side of caution on that one. And I still paint gears regardless, it doesn't take much time and who knows, maybe you'll see an issue you didn't (yet) know was there.

If you used synthetic oil there's no need for friction modifier. If the LSD is kinda loose the friction modifier will make it even worse - remember the purpose of it is to make the clutches somewhat slippery so they don't grab too hard, that's why you soak new ones in that stuff. In our IDI there is exactly zero friction material in the rear Trac-Lok (Dana made the LSDs for Sterling axles), it's not worn out to nothing it's just how it came from the factory - even without friction modifier the thing can slips like crazy when it feels like it (so pretty much any time the driver doesn't want it to), can't imagine how much worse it will be with any friction modifier added. The front axle on the other hand has the newer version of the Trac-Lok that has clutches with friction material on them, still no modifier in it but it does run synthetic oil instead. Now that axle does work extremely well in lousy conditions, basically it is what pulls this heavy beast thru the slop and muck, the rear axle is only good enough to get it stuck

how in the hell are you going to remove the carrier with the axles in place
OAHHHH you mean the entire differential!

Dang it folks, get your terminology straight:
1) differential is just the thing that carries the ring gear, also often referred to as a carrier for that reason.
2) axle SHAFTS is what is driven by the differential and drives the wheels.
3) axle housing is the thing where you chuck the differential and axle shafts inside.

So when Riot says "axle" he means the whole assembly, housing with gearset and diff and shafts and hubs. FWIW full axle swap is something I'd never do unless the current housing is damaged in some way or there are gains (like thicker axle tubes, set up for discs or even larger drums, etc.) to be had from using a different one. The beauty of a full-float rear axle is that you can gut the center section completely without so much as lifting the wheels off the ground. In junkyard conditions with just hand tools I can accomplish that in about 15 minutes, and this is taking EVERYTHING including the pinion bearing races So if Riot does decide to run the 4.10s IMHO he should just swap gear sets in the Sterling that's already in the truck - then like he said no need to buy new U-bolts, plus these axles are big heavy beasts and not something very fun to move around (tho a forklift does make that point kinda moot).

 

[riotwarrior]

Blue truck

Rear axle housing contains a LSD or as i call it posi differential and gear ratio of 3.55

Front axle housing has differential geared to 4.10 open diff

OTHER front axle dissassembled for rebuild with new kp n so on....had 4.10 geared differential now no ring gear on differential and lunch box locker installed.

I hqve 4 complete rear axle assemblies geared foe 4.10. 3 posi 1 open...and a lunch box for it.

I can swap an assembly if need be to match front....but would preferr to regear front toooooo 3.55 if can be done quick n dirty for winter...if not...build diff out of truck on sawhorses


You are trying to reqd too much into what I am saying...this isnt a friggen how too tech 101...if uou think I dont know r n p are matched set then u dont give me much credit.

Seriously bang out one used gear set bang one in...mark it..check bqcklash...if ok freaking golden...if not...put 4.10 back in...golden...swap rear then.

Easy peazy

 

[IDIoit]

Wait, so you swapped just the ring gear, an left the old pinion in place?

no i broke pinion & ring in diff housing A
swapped diff housings in the truck with diff housing B with forklift and extensions.
took LSD from Diff housing A, installed new bearings and ring gear from diff housing B
gears are matched and now has same backlash.

enough of the hijack, and screw proper nomenclature

 

[LCAM-01XA]

You are trying to reqd too much into what I am saying...this isnt a friggen how too tech 101...if uou think I dont know r n p are matched set then u dont give me much credit.

Yo goof, who did I quote when I said gears are matched set? Oh yes, it was the Cali dude, not you - cause he said he chucked a ring in there, I only mentioned it cause wanted to make sure he didn't have one of my blond moments

Quick'n'dirty 4.10->3.55 swap is what we tried as well - IIRC the carrier position was close enough, but pinion depth for sure had to be readjusted. Then we chucked the open out and dropped a LSD in and pretty much everything went out the window

I wonder how you will like that lunchbox locker in the front... Well your truck is long and heavy enough to where I don't expect it to jerk you around too much, but still would be interesting on what you report regarding its manners in winter driving.

 

[riotwarrior]

We will see...R n P showed up yesterday...may do this dont know...might build the good D60 on horses with 3.55

So According to some on here... @LCAM-01XA and anyone else in the know...

If I remove my 3.55 geared posi carrier and pinion from my rear axle housing 10.25 Sterling...

I can then...in theory...Install a 4.10 geared posi carrier and pinion no issues...or my open 4.10 geared carrier and pinion with lunchbox locker in it as well.. ..either or...and have no issues....with a new crush sleeve for now...I dont like settjng up CSEK in winter ugh...

Tell me if this would work alright because that...is the easiest compared to an entire rear axle housing change and so forth.

As for heavy...I just dropped my 500 KG cement block in rear of truck...now almost perfectly 50/50 balance front to rear axle weights according to scales....1900KG + per axle...

Dont know how well lunchbox in front would be but guessing nasty on pavement...fortunately I can lock and unlock one hub if gets hairy....

Hmmm

Thanks for looking

 

[Black dawg]

It would probably be fine doing it that way if you are lucky, but I would plan on having to mess with the pinion depth some.
Depending on how worn the gearset is, it can be hard/impossible to get a pattern to even know if you are close. If the gearset you plan on using is still in a housing, get a pattern off of the coast side, and try to duplicate that in your housing.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

If I remove my 3.55 geared posi carrier and pinion from my rear axle housing 10.25 Sterling...

I can then...in theory...Install a 4.10 geared posi carrier and pinion no issues...or my open 4.10 geared carrier and pinion with lunchbox locker in it as well.. ..either or...and have no issues....with a new crush sleeve for now...I dont like settjng up CSEK in winter ugh...

Tell me if this would work alright because that...is the easiest compared to an entire rear axle housing change and so forth.

Well, you tell me - our truck started as 4.10 open, then it became 4.10 LSD, then the gears got changed to 3.55 with the same LSD, then the same 3.55 gears were moved over onto a different LSD cause it looked to have less wear on the clutches and plates. Never changes carrier shims, just kept reusing the ones the axle came with. Pinions naturally kept their own respective depth shims, never touched those either. You do have to match bearing races to bearings tho, which is no big deal as the axle housing has slots cast/machined into it for a brass drift punch to knock the pinion races out easy-peasy. Like I said I can completely gut a junkyard Sterling in like 15 min, then start to finish our own axle would take about an hour or so if crush sleeve is used, add another 30 min for CSEK cause you may wanna try a few different shim stacks there. I'd do the CSEK from the get go tho - peace of mind is one thing, but you may actually like the 4.10s enough to wanna keep them for a long while, but if you do crush sleeve now for the CSEK install later you'll have to pull the carrier and pinion seal again. I don't see why you'd want to do the same job twice...

It would probably be fine doing it that way if you are lucky, but I would plan on having to mess with the pinion depth some.
Depending on how worn the gearset is, it can be hard/impossible to get a pattern to even know if you are close. If the gearset you plan on using is still in a housing, get a pattern off of the coast side, and try to duplicate that in your housing.

Yes there is that as well. Always paint your gears, both drive and coast sides, with both the yellow paste and Prussian blue. The more readings you can get the more confident you will be that all is OK when put back together. And you really wanna know if this is alright or not, kinda important for this particular job.

Edit: I've seen it mentioned online more than once that almost all pinion depth shims in Sterling axles are actually the same thickness. Not sure how much truth there is to this statement though, I never pulled ours to verify it. However, if the LSD currently in the axle is good, I would be very tempted to just yank the 3.55 ring gear off it and drop the 4.10 one in its place. You accomplish two things this way, one is that you know the LSD will work like it should (with used parts who's to say the "new" LSD isn't pretty well shot), and two you take one variable (carrier position) out of the fear setup equation. I like doing small changes one at a time, makes it easier to keep track of things and correct as needed. Ring gear switch is also a good opportunity to switch it over to the serrated Dana bolts.