MIGHT GET ALUMINUM RADIATOR: FLUSH BEFORE, OR FLUSH LATER?

[SDEconVan]

I'm on the fence...

Looking like I can get an aluminum radiator from Champion, the price is right and performance is probably better than my OEM brass unit.

But, it's aluminum.

From what I've found on this forum and elsewhere to flush the Ford IDI cooling system right, is a bit of a process. Flush,
reverse flush, rust conversion, and seasoning for new coolant.

The question is, "Flush the system now, then pull the radiator?" or do I want to run a flush through my new
aluminum and hope it all goes away?

Couple Notes.
-This is a 6.9L with 64k orig miles, it looks like the cooling system was never maintained, or if it was,
the maintenance stopped a while ago (the van sat a long while not being driven, but was started.)
-This is a Club Wagon, it has an extensive heating/AC system. There are two heat elements, one at the dash and
the other is on the Driver's Side amidships.
-I replaced a rotted hardline under the flooring today and when I took the airsaw to the bad part of the line, a bunch
of very old rusty water spewed out, so that part of the circuit has NOT been open in a loooong time.
-Looking into the radiator, the passages have a bit of rusty soot but the slits are mostly clear.
-Liquid coming out of the system is yellow, not green like with gas.
-Aside from a recent leak, (I caused accidentally while getting the BW1356 shift linkage to work,) there are a couple
tiny weeps coming from the radiator itself, up in the middle someplace. (NO fins appear damaged.)


There is a Radiator Shop in town, they specialize in older vehicles, but last I saw the boiling and inspection costs almost
as much as a new aluminum, and I'd still have the OEM performance. I am told NOT to get the OEM radiator rodded, just
boiled.

The Champion is thinner (good for intercooler later ) but it is aluminum so I am not sure how the IDI is gonna like
that. I want to be able to service in the field and at least limp home, so I need to get schooled on additives needed.

Any ideas how to approach this would be greatly appreciated!

Best regards,
George

 

[IDIoit]

theres a additive ive heard about that that eats away at all the deposits in the cooling ways.
i cant remember what it was!
ALWAYS FLUSH BEFORE!
you dont want any of that crap in your new radiator.
i run motorcraft gold.
hoping im doing right!

 

[79jasper]

Thinner isn't really better.
And aluminum isn't really "worse."
Fleetcharge is about the best option.

Sent from my SM-T537R4 using Tapatalk

 

[SDEconVan]

Hi IDIoit-
Yea, I heard the Motorcraft was good for the brass radiator but I found a couple places saying maybe it's not
so good with aluminum? Still researching before I purchase...

Hi 79jasper-
I'm probably wrong on this- I read that the OEM 3-row does not cool as well as a 2-row aluminum (100% AL like
champion makes.) I could be wrong on this, still trying to get reviews NOT from the manufacturers of all these
radiators, ha ha.

Thinner radiator will be good for me since I can backset it (with AC rad) which creates more space in front, just
behind the grille. Just trying to plan ahead for the intercooler, which looks to be over 3" thick...

***********************
Here is a pic of the "aft system" It's the TWO metal lines on the right, "IN" is left, "OUT" is right of the pair.

You must be registered for see images attach

This is on the left side of the transmission, looking forward. On the vans, there are two lines that go back about
4 or 5 feet, into the heater core for heating the rear passengers.

This part of the system has not been cracked open in years.

Looks like the vacuum-actuated valve is old and stuck shut too. So along with flushing the radiator, I want to
flush this part too (because once it opens, all that old gunk is going to go into the clean part.)

You must be registered for see images attach

This valve is right next to your right knee (engine cover (dog house) would normally be covering it.) So maybe
undo that hose and flush on its' own???

Great advice so far! Thanks.
Best regards,
George

 

[79jasper]

And I could be wrong also, but I believe the aluminum cools better. Which would probably make the 2 row okay. (i just mentioned it because the way you worded "the champion is thinner, but it is aluminum so I am not sure how the idi is gonna like that.")
I thought you were saying the aluminum wouldn't cool it.
Plenty here have that same radiator, iirc.
No idea on flushing with a system like that. Some like dishwasher stuff, just don't know if you should do the rear separately.
Looking at those lines, I wander if they should be replaced?

Sent from my SM-T537R4 using Tapatalk

 

[mccall52]

If it were mine, if it's not too much trouble, and the risk of breaking things is minimal, I would totally flush the rear independently. And again, depending on level of difficulty, bypass the rear, do an initial flush of the front, reconnect, then fill with a recommended antifreeze mixture of your liking.

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

+1 on flushing them separately and prior to installing your new radiator.

Sounds like you are planning to keep your van for a while. If it were me, I'd separate the two systems, which shouldn't be too difficult. If your engine coolant doesn't look that bad, I would flush it with some rust eating product (I like muratic acid, but it is toxic and a little hard to handle) and be prepared to deal with anything that leaks (read radiator, water pump, heater core). Then flush everything and make sure you fill it with distilled water and the coolant of your choosing.

In regards to the rear heater, I'd take a little different tact as I think being parked and/or having your vacuum actuated gate valve stuck shut will probably bring you some extraordinary corrosion. Separate the system from the front and flush with a garden hose. I'd make a little apparatus to gravity fill the system with the flushing chemical of your choosing. I'd fill it and let it sit for a short amount of time and repeat until the flush is coming out rust free.

If at that point you've got all the system cleaned up and there are no leaks on any buried components, I'd deal with those rear coolant lines. If you are planning on keeping your van for a long time, and really value that factory appearance, go to your local hydraulics house (I'd suggest The Comoso ParkerStore in Escondido) and get some stainless tubing. If you use stainless steel, you'll eliminate all the rust that's coming from the inside of the tubes. If you think the outside is rusty, just think about what the non-circulating water based coolant looks like inside. If bending tubes and making it look pretty on the underside isn't your thing, get yourself an appropriate length of heater hose and run it in place of your current rusty tubes.

Good luck, vans are cool

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

i run motorcraft gold.
hoping im doing right!

Are You Using the Right Coolant?

page #6:

Q. What is the interchangeability of Mo-
torcraft® Premium Engine Coolant and
Motorcraft® Premium Gold Engine
Coolant? Can Motorcraft® Premium
Engine Coolant be used to top off a vehicle equipped with Motorcraft Premium
Gold Engine Coolant? Can Motorcraft®
Premium Gold Engine Coolant be used
in vehicles equipped with Motorcraft®
Premium Engine Coolant?


3.All pre-1999 vehicles, as well as all
model years of Mercury Villager, must
be serviced with the green-colored engine
coolant.

 

[OLDBULL8]

To flush the rear, get a 5/8" garden hose repair kit, use the female fitting so you can screw your garden hose to the rear. Back flush it first then forward. There is new heater line shutoff valves available. It really don't do much good to boil out a radiator, Ford radiators cannot be rodded out due to the crinkles in the tubes, rodding will punch holes in them. Fleet Charge with the SCA in it is a good coolant, good for 100K miles, available at NAPA, IH and farm stores. You need 4 gallons of coolant and 4 gallons of STEAM distilled water for a charge, may take a little more for a rear heating core. Fleet Charge is compatable with Aluminium.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

^ fleetcharge that is.

http://www.peakhd.com/product-lines/fleet-charge/faq/

filter for fill for life;
http://penray.com/products/need-release-synthetic-media-filters/

 

[OLDBULL8]

Fixed it. From Gard to Charge.

 

[Hydro-idi]

theres a additive ive heard about that that eats away at all the deposits in the cooling ways.
i cant remember what it was!
ALWAYS FLUSH BEFORE!
you dont want any of that crap in your new radiator.
i run motorcraft gold.
hoping im doing right!

Motorcraft VC9 Cooling System Flush

IMO, this is the best stuff out there. It is a dealership item only and is quite expensive at about $25 a bottle. Our large cooling systems will require 2. I flushed system before installing my new radiator. I did try the heavy duty flushes available at napa and they didn't clean anything. I will explain what I did and how I did it.

Before I installed champion rad, I drained entire cooling system including the block drains. I filled entire system with garden hose water and let engine run for about 10 minutes (with thermostat removed).
Then drain the entire system, making sure you pull block drains.
Again, fill-up system with garden hose water and add 2 bottles of Motorcraft VC9.
Let engine run for exactly 1 hour @ high idle (1200 rpm)
Let engine cool down and drain entire system (including block drains). This is when you will visually be able to see all of the deposits that the other flushes leave behind. Flush will come out looking like chocolate milk.
This is when I backflushed entire system with a "PVC pipe adapter" contraption that I had made that hooks up to a garden hose and upper radiator hose. Turn on hose and let backflush system for about 5 minutes. You won't believe all of the crap that comes out. It is very important that you remove ALL VC9 flush from cooling system.
Make sure block drains are tight and sealed and re-install motorcraft thermostat. This would be a good time to replace thermostat and/or fan clutch if it's due for retirement soon.
Install champion radiator along with new upper/lower hoses, fill system with your favorite SCA Antifreeze and make sure to top off using distilled water only.
IMPORTANT. Throw away champion radiator cap and replace with a stant 13 psi cap.

 

[RocketScott]

I put a two row aluminum radiator from Performance Radiator in my '94 with the 7.3 and it's having an overheating problem. I had thought that the transmission slipping and creating heat was the problem but after I swapped that out last week it is still overheating. Most of the time the needle is on the L of Normal and if I push it too hard it pops up to redline pretty quick. This is with the van empty so I'm sure any extra weight will make it worse.

When I got the van it had oil in the coolant so I fixed the oil cooler, put in a motorcraft thermostat, flushed the system (and found the radiator to be leaking), then replaced the radiator. I tried to find the radiator on Performances site so you could compare but I don't think they make it anymore. I haven't checked the fan clutch yet so I can't say for sure that the radiator is the problem but when I got it I thought it looked a little thin and the price was a little too good to be true.

 

[RocketScott]

Well I guess all it took to fix my van was to get on here and complain about it. After that I drove over to my shop where the van is stored, topped off the coolant (took a gallon and a half) and went for a drive. It stayed between the N and O in 'Normal' the whole time. Went out on the highway and came back through town. I'm guessing there was an air pocket that finally worked through.

 

[SDEconVan]

79jasper, mccall52, lotzagoodstuff, FORDF250HDXLT, OLDBULL8, Hydro-idi, and RocketScott:
HUGE THANK YOU!

Man, this forum's Members are GREAT!!! (That's why I'm a "supporting member")

I'm starting to formulate what to do.

I also found that VC9 is the stuff to use, found it for $27 w/free shipping on Amazon. If I understand right, VC9 will convert and lock the oxidation (rust) which might help the 2 Heater Cores. Stainless would be a nice addition but the bends in the 2 rear lines are kinda crazy as they hoop around the frame. Plus, the Heater Cores are still iron/steel- so for now, I'll just keep the lines as they are, although I had to chop off the leaking part:

You must be registered for see images attach

I developed a leak at the spot welded separator brace, from my bending it too much,

You must be registered for see images attach

What I noticed was the majority of the rust was at the interface between the hardlines and the rubber hose. The clamps
were completely rusted to failure, and the metal line was rusted outside (inside doesn't look too bad, surprising.)
This probably means there was a long term slow leak, then after the hoseclamps rusted out, the slow leak continued, and rusted
the lines.

I should note the sheet metal under this van is pristine, there is mostly clean metal everywhere, and it bugged me that I saw these
rusted lines a few months back when I got this van. Oh, also the shift linkage right next to this hose connection was pretty disproportionately
rusted too. The A/C lines which are right next to the heater lines are not nearly as rusted, just surface scale, if that. Shows up worse in
photos than in real life, ha.

Here's a shot of the hardlines when I first got the van, (C6, or 5-1/2, still in it.)

You must be registered for see images attach

kinda hard to make out, the rusted lines are along the Top of the photo.

Looking aft, the lines are real nice still:

You must be registered for see images attach

This was taken a couple days ago. The Heater Lines are the fatter ones, AC has one skinny and one thick.

I have a Heater Control Valve coming, got it for 20 bucks, shipped. Ford P/N YG-136

So, I want to get the most out of using VC9. But this means running the HOT caustic mix through the entire system, which means I cannot flush the
rear by itself. The hard part is being sure I run ALL the heater/coolant circuits!

Right now from the info offered and from a few innerweb searches, the flush process will be like:
(this is the whole system connected, and functioning)

FLUSH PROCESS
1. Flush with garden hose. Run 10 minutes and drain, with block plugs pulled. (Thermostat removed- OH MAN, not easy on the vans...)
2. Fill with garden hose and VC9, run an hour, then drain, block plugs pulled. (Expect "chocolate milk")
3. Back flush. Tap system at top hose, flush with garden hose for 5 minutes. (Be sure ENTIRE system is flushed, inc. heaters. Expect "debris".)
4. Button up system, fill with distilled water, run til up to temperature (an hour?) drain with block plugs pulled.
5. Repeat #4, if drained fluid is not very clear, then possibly add VC9 again. Then repeat #4. Hopefully not.
6. Remove old radiator, install new aluminum radiator. Use new hoses, Stant 13 psi cap. Install new MC Thermostat. Install Pen-ray R&R Filter system.
7. Fill with 1/2 distilled water (4-5 gallons, volume yet unknown w/Clubwagon,) finish with Fleet-charge (has DCA/SCA. Diesel Coolant Additive/Special...)

Not sure if I need to check with strips, I'm still trying to understand the need if it's Fleet-charge...

...I confirmed the 2-row Aluminum (Champion's version, NO plastic caps) cools more efficiently than the OEM brass radiator.

RocketScott- that's reassuring that you got your system dialed in! It also confirms the aluminums might be the way to go for hot climates (84 degrees here today, 88 yesterday.)

Please feel free to pick apart my proposed "process" there's quite a bit to getting it done right. Luckily there is a "water shop" (this is Commiefornia) near my shop, they have all kinds of water (seriously, ha.) Need to be sure to get true distilled water and NOT de-ionized water, I need the gourmet stuff...

Best regards,
George

[edit: I also got more info from another diesel site:] http://www.dieselhub.com/maintenance/idi-coolant-flush.html