IP timing adjustment on econoline van

[rockbender]

It's about time to start planning on getting the van timing checked!

I recently got a few exhaust leaks in the up pipe welded up ( which made a noticable difference in turbo boost), as well as went down a tire size from a 35" mud terrain to a 33" AT. In the quest for additional fuel savings for upcoming spring and summer excursions I think it is time to start reviewing my options for getting the timing checked and adjusted as needed.

First, does anybody know if adjusting the IP on the econoline is (significantly) more difficult than in a truck? The one shop I've found in town that has the required tools and experience indicated it would take about 2 shop hours for a pickup, but I'd be looking at closer to 3-4 hours to do the van (if adjustment was required). Does this sound right?

From the way I see it, I've got three options:
1. pony up and just get it done at the local diesel shop (Bend, OR). From my conversation with them I feel pretty good that they would get the job done properly.
2. head over to the wet side of the mountains (coming from Bend, Oregon) and have it timed at a shop over there. The main reasons for this option would be possibly more competitive pricing and/or the opportunity to maybe have one of the members here do the work and get the business (and chat IDI's for a bit).
3. Either head up or tag along to a timing party using one of the rental meters. This would likely make the most economical sense, but I really don't have space to host and frankly probably would have a harder time setting aside the time for this as well.

Since I don't have my rig in my signature yet, I'll go ahead and try to throw some background details out that may be pertinent:
'84 E350 4wd, 6.9L IDI w/ Banks Turbo, C6 w/ GV, NP205, 4.10's F&R, 295/75R16 AT's. 4"ish lift. 190k miles. Original fuel system as far as I know, but can't be sure.

Currently turns about 2000 RPM at 55, and I don't have any reason to drive too much faster most of the time. I haven't had the AT's on long enough to really realize the MPG difference from the bigger mud's, but am hopeful that it will help. The noise reduction is certainly nice! My running average is probably about 12.5 MPG with a few of my best tanks about 14 +/-, but that is really driving with a light foot. While I would love to see the numbers that Dragrag got out of his sweet Pathfinder van, I realize that my added height and bigger tires are not going to help me out.

I know I should think about updating the fuel system based upon mileage, but want to first make sure the timing is on and then go from there as needed. My current thought is if it ain't broke don't drop a ton of money on it!

Any input would be appreciated! For anybody near me that does this for a living and wants to quote a price, feel free to PM if you don't want it out there publicly.
cheers,
josh

 

[johneich]

In .

First, does anybody know if adjusting the IP on the econoline is (significantly) more difficult than in a truck?

josh

Josh, I have never timed a van, if you have clearance with your hood up to put a big wrench on the IP and move it left and right the procedure should be no different except that the van uses a different cylinder hard line to time by pulse, IIRC, #4 vs #1.

If you don't want to look for a Kent-Moore consider a Ferret meter with a timing light that has advance (20 degrees, IIRC)

I used an adjustable wrench the first time I timed, I now have a tool I bought on eBay that fits our IP

 

[icanfixall]

There is a member in oregon that just bought a kent moore timing meter. I wont volenteer him so maybe he will chime in and offr you help for a reasonable fee. Vans are tuffer than trucks. Adding a turbo increases the trouble too. How many miles are on the injection pump and injectors. If its 100,000 miles or more then its time to replace them. Then time the engine so its really shows the benifits. Just timing a worn out pump and injectors is little more than a band aid. Just as soon as the injectors or pump is replaced the timing wil be off no matter how good it sounds or runs. Also the timing marks on the pump and gear cover are not marks to simply match up a new pump to.. They mean nothing as far as timing goes.

 

[rockbender]

You present a good point Gary, but I was hoping to run another year before doing a fuel system overhaul. Swapping injectors (and pump for that matter) in the van chassis does not look like any fun! I'm not sure what originally came with the '84 6.9's, but the ones that are in it are B codes and appear to have some factory colored paint on them. I couldn't find anything on the pump that would tell me anything other than a little aluminum tag with an 'E' stamped on it and part of sticker on the pump cover that appears to be original. I can only assume that everything is original with about 190k on them. I'm going to look through the folders of documentation that came with the van to double check to see if any fuel system work was done and recorded.

Are you suggesting that there would be little benefit of timing a worn system? I know that as the system wears it retards (or advances... can't remember) the timing a bit and I was thinking it would be a good idea to check it to compensate for this wear if nothing else. Perhaps it isn't significant?

I did notice that one of our Oregon guru's did just pick up a meter, and I'm hoping he might want some extra work to help it pay for itself! My only worry by going to Russ is that I'll walk away wanting a cam and a pump and an upgraded turbo and a... might get expensive;p

 

[johneich]

I know that as the system wears it retards (or advances... can't remember) the timing

It retards as it wears

 

[icanfixall]

It retards as it wears

Russ is a great guy. You wont get him trying to sell you something just to increase the money in his pocket. Thats not how he rolls. Like Mel, Russ is a great wealth of information here and very well respected. If you have looked at the cut down heads that Mel has painted up so we can see all the differant parts... Those were cut down by Russ and are a very good show and tell item at every ralley. Both did an impressive job on those parts. I just saw one of the pics posted today about the precups in the heads. Very well cut and painted cutaway too....

 

[Black dawg]

2 hrs to time a pickup and 3-4 for a van is out of line. The MOST I have ever charged on a pickup was two hrs, and I pulled the pump to repair a sticking advance piston.

 

[jayel73]

I agree, out of line. No real reason to charge more for a van for timing. Open hood, lean over, close ya eyes... feel the bolts. Use a mirror...
If you have to pull the pump out, it will be easier taking it through the cab... unbolt seat, doghouse... how many hours does that take.

 

[IDIDieselJohn]

Josh, no useful answer for you, but I have to say, if that van of yours was a extended panel van, and not a window van, I'd be drooling as hell here

 

[RLDSL]

If you plan on running the current parts for another year, then you would benefit from retiming the current parts, that's for sure, especially since they would have been set for factory spec at one time and have most likely wandered a bit and with the new fuel 8.5 btdc gives you lousy fuel mileage and low power, where around 9.7 deg btdc will get it back to where it acted on the old fuel Since you are going to keep the truck and will be getting a new fuel system in around a year, you would be cash ahead to just go ahead and buy a new Ferret pulse adapter. With that and a quality advance timing light , you can set it yourself and know that it it right. If you pay a shop, they go by specs that say 8.5 deg + or - 2 deg so they put a meter on it and if its anywhere from 6.5 to 10.5, they slam the hood and call it good and hit you with a bill... and your truck still isn't running right. This is if you are lucky enough to have the shop that has told you that they have teh equipment , to actually HAVE it, where in most cases they were assuming that you had a powerstroke, even though you told them it wasn't, because they simply don't understand the difference and when you show up, they go looking for a place to plug in the computer to set the timing and when they dont find it, they just set it by ear, which can be so far off it's not even funny.
What Gary is doing with the rental program is a wonderful thing for an emergency, but if you plan on keeping the truck, you should really own the tool.

 

[rockbender]

Thanks for all the input guys - I appreciate it! I know I haven't posted much, but I've certainly lurked & searched quite a bit here and can't say enough about the integrity of the members here. Helpful straight up answers, even when it seems like you're having to answer the same question every week (Gary, Mel, Russ, etc... you guys know who you are). Nobody ever seems to get belittled nor does it become a contest to see who has the biggest ____. One of only a few forums that I enjoy just thumbing through to see what and how everyone is doing.

I plan on contacting Russ in the coming months and see if I can't make an appointment with him to coincide with another trip near him, but will also look into just getting the proper tools to add to the tool box in the mean time too. The van is definitely a long term toy, so I don't need to be in too much of a rush.

Jon - the van actually now has a poptop on it which I had tracked down prior to getting the van and dictated the purchase of the regular body instead of extended. The extended would have been nice for the extra room, but we really like the shorter rig for parking ease and the fact that it fits in the garage. It is a fun weekend rig for the family for sure.

happy new year!