Hydrogen injection ???

[NapaBavarian]

(I'm already able to shut them up re: hybrids )...

What's your take on hybrids? Something more than batteries?

I was yacking away BSing with a friend while we waited in an excessively long line, reading signs on the wall, and taking them literally ;p to kill time...this lady in front of us was becoming more and more uncomftorable untill I said something about my "hybrid"

She whipped arround and said "wha'd you have, I have a prius and I love it! "

So I said the first thing that came to mind...

"I have a big DIESEL truck that runs on diesel or veggie oil"...yup, I got a hybrid

If I stuck a dull knife in her gut the expression on her face would have been less pained

 

[Mike]

Hello,

My name is Daniel Wells and I am the founder of Umpqua Energy. I found this forum in my website logs and have read the posts and would like to comment.

First, I totally agree with the posts regarding the hydrogen economy. We are way off before the infrastructure will be in place to accomodate such a thing.

Secondly, when the oil industry decides to build the infrastructure for the hydrogen economy, then the hydrogen economy will exist.

Lastly, we use on-board electrolysis to make hydrogen to immediately be consumed and blended with the primary fuel. The alternator is sufficient for this. The power gains come from the fact that there is a more complete burn of the primary fuel which increases fuel economy and reduces emissions.

Our target market is large diesel applications since they are able to show a rapid return on investment for the equipment purchase since they are spending ~50k per year in fuel, a 10% savings in fuel economy will pay off the equipment in ~12 months.

Daniel Wells

Dan,

Thanks for joining in here on this discussion. With the heat the oil companies are taking right now for price gouging I dont see the American public being overly happy when they have to pay for the oil companies to build a Hydrogen infrastructure. It will be an astronomical expense and I garuntee you it will be passed along to the consumer. The money invested in an H2 infrastructure would be better invested in exploration and production of currently untapped fields.


again, just my dos centavos.

 

[flatlander]

Our target market is large diesel applications since they are able to show a rapid return on investment for the equipment purchase since they are spending ~50k per year in fuel, a 10% savings in fuel economy will pay off the equipment in ~12 months.

Daniel Wells

So if my math is correct your system is app. $5K.

Can't say I'm interested in a 5000 system in a 2500 truck, but I would like to know more about what your doing. How about some of the principles behind it and the pertinent info on what you do.

 

[dan.wells]

Correct, and more if a trucking company has us place more equipment on their truck such as a ECM module, performance injectors or fuel additives. Our approach is to take control of the engine first and then add supplemental hydrogen secondly. Trucking companies are facing huge challenges in meeting EPA 2007 and 2010 guidelines. Our systems bring them into compliance by retrofitting their trucks instead of them having to buy new equipment.

There are companies that focus on the pickup truck and passenger vehicles markets. If you would like to contact me through my website then I will put you in contact with them.

I also have access the the Dr Performance series of ECM modules if anyone is interested in improving fuel economy and reducing emissions for less than a thousand.

 

[hypermax22]

well i can understand the bigger trucking companys and stuff. but if you look epa is aready tring to improve on the diesel pickup trucks to with this new reclamer. so were does that leave trucks like we have? because i dont know about you guys my truck couldn't pass a emisions test even if i wanted to. and buy reading all this useful info means that in 2010 were going to have to have ecm modules like your selling or we cant even be on the road. so i guess from my understanding is the days of blowing black smoke is over

 

[spencnaz]

Yet another reason I use biodiesel. A 78% reduction in carbon dioxide alone is reason enough plus all the power I need to tow 10 Hybrids off the road.

 

[tonkadoctor]

What's your take on hybrids? Something more than batteries?

I was yacking away BSing with a friend while we waited in an excessively long line, reading signs on the wall, and taking them literally ;p to kill time...this lady in front of us was becoming more and more uncomftorable untill I said something about my "hybrid"

She whipped arround and said "wha'd you have, I have a prius and I love it! "

So I said the first thing that came to mind...

"I have a big DIESEL truck that runs on diesel or veggie oil"...yup, I got a hybrid

If I stuck a dull knife in her gut the expression on her face would have been less pained

Reminds me of my sister in law who thought she was gonna top me when she asked me if my old truck could burn E85.....I politly replied .....No but I can burn B100, waste oil & that bottle of vegetable oil you have in your hand and if you give it to me I'll pour it in right now....The only thing she could think to say was "What's B100"

 

[hypermax22]

Yet another reason I use biodiesel. A 78% reduction in carbon dioxide alone is reason enough plus all the power I need to tow 10 Hybrids off the road.

yeah but doesnt biodiesel fuel tend to jell up when its cold because i have been talking to a guy that makes it and he told me it has a bad jelling problem in the winter months

 

[TLBREWER]

I love all this talk about alternative fuels. I think our old IDI's are the perfect testbeds since they are more tolerant than the newer engines. I know it says in my owners manual specifically that my Duramax is not compatible with biodiesel, much to my disappointment. That being said, I don't know how much of that is GM's way of just bypassing testing or responsibility of the possible effects on the engine. I'm sure it has something to do with the multiple injections on each powerstroke at 26,000+ psi.

I'm with Tim on hybrids. I'm so sick of hearing about them I could . The same with E85. It's just a stop gap, not the answer. From the reading I've done, the final product is very small compared to the amount of raw material required. I do think it is a good idea as it provides a potential market for the American farmer. But then again, I don't have any gas burners that I drive regularly so it doesn't affect me. I do know that the new state government vehicles in NM (trucks anyway) all have the E85 decals on them. A very good friend of mine that is a state inspector drives one. Problem is they are promoting it like crazy, and there is only one gas station in the greater Albuquerque area where you can get it.

Dan Wells welcome to the forum. It is very refreshing to actually have an aftermarket manufacturer visit our little corner of the world. Please don't feel attacked in this discussion. We definately value your input and welcome you to educate us on what you have to offer. Remember that a lot of the contributors here have rather extensive experience in light duty and OTR diesel engines. We are skeptical, but open minded. Our challenge to you is not to necessarily sell us, but educate us. We are always eager to learn something new.

Tom

 

[spencnaz]

yeah but doesnt biodiesel fuel tend to jell up when its cold because i have been talking to a guy that makes it and he told me it has a bad jelling problem in the winter months

Yes I have had gelling issues with biodiesel, however my biodiesel is made from waste veggie oil (soy-based). Soy based biodiesel will start to gel up around 38F. Canola derived biodiesel will gel up around 25F or lower temperatures.

I've been doing alot of research into cuphea (coo-fee-ah) and it's potential as a feedstock for very low-temperature biodiesel, potentially for aviation fuels. From what I've gathered so far, cuphea derived biodiesel will start to gel around -5F

Now there are various additives that further lower the gelpoint of biodiesel. I've been using just a mix with either #1 or #2 fuel. Stanadyne's Slickdiesel is compatible with B20 biodiesel in keeping it from gelling.

 

[hypermax22]

Yes I have had gelling issues with biodiesel, however my biodiesel is made from waste veggie oil (soy-based). Soy based biodiesel will start to gel up around 38F. Canola derived biodiesel will gel up around 25F or lower temperatures.

I've been doing alot of research into cuphea (coo-fee-ah) and it's potential as a feedstock for very low-temperature biodiesel, potentially for aviation fuels. From what I've gathered so far, cuphea derived biodiesel will start to gel around -5F

Now there are various additives that further lower the gelpoint of biodiesel. I've been using just a mix with either #1 or #2 fuel. Stanadyne's Slickdiesel is compatible with B20 biodiesel in keeping it from gelling.

do you have to change anything to be able to run biodiesel? because if you dont i would like to know where a person could get it? or do you have to make your own? this is something i would be interested to learn more about. i have never really thought about running it until now with this junk diesel fuel that we have. so if you could give me more info about this i would like to learn more

 

[The Warden]

At the risk of pulling this thread further into the weeds...

What's your take on hybrids? Something more than batteries?

Batteries are a big part of it. From a financial perspective, it looks like battery replacement will cost $3K+, and could be purchased as often as every five years (OTOH, some have implied that they don't expect the car to outlast the battery ). From an environmental perspective, what sort of long-term environmental impact is there in disposing of the battery packs? Some have claimed that hybrid batteries can be disposed without harming the environment, but I have yet to see someone quantify the statement...whereas I have seen strong implications that getting rid of hybrid batteries has about as large of an adverse impact as running a conventional gas engine for the period of time the batteries are expected to last.

In addition, there's the accuracy of the fuel economy ratings. It is apparent that the hybrid does quite well from a fuel mileage standpoint in city driving or in stop-and-go freeway driving. However, fuel economy takes a serious nosedive on a long freeway trip...simply put, the batteries exhaust themselves and the engine starts doing all the work. You end up with a car that's getting mileage similar to a conventional gas car (and maybe even slightly worse, with the extra vehicle weight from the battery packs and whatnot), regardless of what the trip computer's telling you.

I had to admit that some of my issues are political as well. I live in an area where a LARGE amount of hybrids are being sold, and it's very clear that most of the people buying them are doing so as a social statement. I have a big issue with anyone with a self-righteous holier-than-thou attitude regardless of political viewpoint and hybrid drivers are no exception. Actually, while I consider myself a bit of an environmentalist, I am so disgusted with the American environmentalist movement that I refuse to associate myself with it in any way shape or form, and the fact that they have jumped on the hybrid bandwagon really exacerbates my negative attitude towards both.

Lastly, as a biodiesel supporter I feel that the hybrid movement is eclipsing the biodiesel movement, which is probably an active effort on their parts, since American environmentalists hate diesels so much and will say and do ANYTHING to keep them off the road

So, in conclusion, from what I've seen, read, experienced, etc. hybrids have a hidden cost (batteries) that people don't realize, both financially and environmentally. They also aren't as good on fuel as advertised unless you only drive in the city (I will give them this; the regenerative braking concept is a good idea), and the majority of the crowd that's buying them is doing so for the wrong reasons. I'm all for alternative energy but, to be blunt, I think we're wasting resources on this concept when we should be putting those resources into biodiesel, ethanol, etc, PARTICULARLY considering that there are diesels out there already that do better on fuel than hybrids. Imagine what could be done if more attention was paid to diesels...

Here's a few articles to read...

http://www.liberator.net/articles/LiberatorMark/hybridvehicles.html

http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-news/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabID=500648&ArticleID=5487&R=ce5487

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-06-10-diesel-vs-hybrid_x.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-06-11-diesel-hybrid-diary_x.htm

 

[swampdigger]

I too like this alternative fuel talk--gives ya a little taste of the future

I'm putting my money on electric vehicles--IF they can improve the storage methods. The internal combustion engine has had a good run, but at only 20 to 30% efficient, it's kinda a waste burning ANYTHING in there!

Electric motors on the other hand are far more efficient. Our current battery technologies suck, however. I think as oil prices climb it'll provide more incentive for research labs to pursue battery technologies. Give them time, they will make a good battery.

They're gonna be stumped providing ANY kinda of radically new infrastructure though. Even with electric cars buzzing around, North America will have to increase power generation greatly, and beef up the lines.

Oh, and hybrids are junk for reasons alright said. I'm in that camp too.

 

[spencnaz]

There are no mods that have to be done to the truck when you run biodiesel. However, natural rubber components are attacked by biodiesel. If your vehicle is '94 and later, you wont have to worry about it.

If you start using biodiesel, make sure you have a couple of new fuel filters handy as it will clean out all the gunk in your tank from years of petrodiesel usage and plug up the fuel filters.

 

[TLBREWER]

Warden..very well put. I have that exact argument almost on a weekly basis with my tree hugger friends. I'm to the point I don't even argue much anymore because they are so misguided it's not worth burning the calories.

Rangerwreck. Where did you get your efficiency numbers? If your talking about stoichiometric efficiency (or however you spell it), a properly tuned diesel should be in the area of 75-80% efficient. A mild street performance gas engine is near 80-85% efficient. While a highly tuned racing engine on racing fuel is 100-110% efficient. Maybe you're talking about a different type of efficiency than I'm familiar with.

Regardless. I would have to fill the bed of my K3500 with batteries to equal the 360hp and 650ft/lb of torque that my Dmax delivers. Great for traction, sucks for payload management.

Tom