Gremlins are here, troubleshooting help please.

[racer30]

I agree with icanfixall, Need to know how much oil pressure you got. sounds to me that you have lifters that are not pumped up or that have air in them, air will compress and make the lift at the valve less this will make the engine run ok at idle but wont run at higher rpm, no lift,low duration,no air flow = Black smoke no rpm. Most of the engines I build have solid lifters, But every time I put a hydraulic lifter engine together I always prime the lifters, first with a hand pump oiler and then the engine gets primed and turned at least 2 full engine valve cycles before start up. I know you can't prime a idi that way so to me it would make sense to prime at install. Just my 2 cents. I would have thougt it would have worked all the air out after some run time. Good luck hope you get her figured out soon.

 

[diesel4me2]

The valve train just sounds horrible. What could I have missed when swapping out the cam? Are the lifters 180 deg sensitive? I pulled the rockers off in pairs keeping it as an assembly with bolts holding them together, pulled pushrods and lifters, swapped cam, put lifters back in, copper side up on the pushrods, torque rocker bolts to 20 ft/lbs with crank timing mark at 11:00. Could the valve lever posts have gotten 180'ed and cause problems? I am going to dissamble the rocker covers and have a look. Can't stay idle just scratching my head.

when i rebuilt mine i was told to keep the little hole in the side of the lifter towards the rear of the engine. weep hole drain

chris

 

[GOOSE]

I got to tear into things tonight. Pulled the rocker covers and got a quarter turn out of almost all of them to get the 240 in/lbs required by the book. Two of them on the right side were about three turns out from being even hand tight Re torqued and started with covers off. watched oil come out of every rocker and all moved equally. Oil pressure comes quick and moves the Ford idiot stick to the center of its sweep. Valve clatter is definitely gone.Put together and test drove. Oh yeah, these are all new lifters, pushrods, rockers, springs and valves. Just a note.

It continues however to fall on its face after 1500rpm's or so and belch black smoke. It almost sounds like it is detonating if diesels can do that. The boost gauge was moving very erratically to the point that you couldn't see where the needle was. I got back and removed the intake and saw oil coming from under the impeller. I am thinking that the milkshake that the already worn turbo endured on the last engine was enough to put it past being useable. There is excessive movement up and down and front to back when wiggling the shaft, not good A friend of mine who just finished diesel tech and I agree that the turbo needs a rebuild before further diagnostics can be done.He also says he will be at the school he went to tomorrow and there is a chance of an 093 rebuild being there for the taking Man, I hope so.

Thank you for all the replies, everyone was taken into consideration and looked at tonight. I definitely need to get my buddy to join, he just got a '93 turbo 4x4 utility body and would appreciate this site.

 

[racer30]

way to go goose.....staying on the trail of those gremlins

 

[typ4]

If the turbo shaft moves in and out at alll it is very bad., side to side it shouldnt touch the sides, and the milkshake will raise hell with them.

 

[SparkandFire]

Just wondering if the timing could be off a tooth or two?

Were all the dots/arrows lined up when it was reassembled?

 

[towtruckdave]

Goose, I am sure you are dissapointed with having a bad turbo, but count your blessings, that thing could have run away on you and scattered that beautiful new motor.

Here is wishing you good luck.

I hope to see you at the Rally either way.

 

[GOOSE]

I take pictures of every alignment in case I doubt lining up the the bullets and Y's, I am sure they are there. I am going to turn the pump down 3 flats and put N/A exhaust on 'er tonight I will shelf the turbo if its what it takes to make the rally with the Logger. If not, I at least will have the right vintage truck with my Mom's '91 F150. You WILL see me at the Rally. Definitely need the down time after this couple of weeks.

If anyone has a better suggestion than trying N/A setup, PLEASE, I am all ears. If the N/A works, anyone have a N/A air filter and housing to offer me at the rally? I got other spare parts to trade for it

Seriously, I am still very much working hard at troubleshooting, hopefully more answers tonight.

 

[oldblue05]

What has happened to you and that truck shouldn't happen to anyone, I know how frustrating it can be to work on something as hard as you can just to watch it fail time and time again. I would wish you luck but instead I wish you stubbornness, enough to get the thing running parts permitting!!!

 

[GOOSE]

Time to hit pause.

Well, I converted her over to the N/A side of the world and went out for a test drive. I also went against protocall and turned down the IP 2.5 flats because there would not be a pyro. Proper protocol would have been to only play with one thing at a time.

Despite the turbo being quite worn and questionably nonservicable, it was not the culprit. The N/A y pipe without any muffler, dumping right at the rear of the cab was quite loud yet gave me some insight to what was happening. I took off onto a 50mph road and she turned up to 3,000rpm's, shifted, hit the go, and there's that stumble that has been holdong this engine back. Idle down, it goes away in a matter of seconds. As the miss is prevalent, you hear a distinct huffing sound in the N/A's exhaust pipes. It sounds like an exhaust valve is not closing, causing the engine to miss and I would say causing the erratic boost gauge when turbo was on the truck.

As Mel pointed out I still sit wondering if there was an issue with the engine or was it my doing. I also deduct that the IP is a non issue as stated, turning down the fuel screw eliminated smoke but the basic issues are still there.

I think I have to take the valve covers off and #1 try to make it perform its ailment to see what valve it is and #2 check once again the torque values on the rocker bolts.

The wrenches are going to sit idle untill after the rally. There just isn't enough time to pull everything together by Saturday am's departure. Thankfully my Mom's F150 will be carting me to meet lots of people and have a much needed unwind., with my kids of course, they deserve the unwind as much as me. Please feel free to offer up any more insight as it all is taken into consideration. I will post more progress after the rally. Thanks again everybody.

 

[6.9poweredscout]

ugh...that sucks man, i hope it's at least a simple fix when you get back to it!

-Jon

 

[towtruckdave]

Were you able to verify enough fuel volume up to the IP?

You know, I have seen rebuilt engines have an intermitent leaky valve from a nut or something falling into the intake port. The valve does not open enough to let it fall into the cylinder but it keeps the valve from closing all the way. Long shot. If this turns out to be the case, I will never join you for a boat ride or stand next to you in a thunderstorm.

If that motor sat around, it could have a sticky valve. The right way to fix that would be to dissasemble, clean the guide, lube, reassemble.

I am gonna say with all seriousness, why don't you put that motor in the back of the F150 and let us look at it?

 

[subway]

sorry to hear that, at least you can make it up to relax at the rally.

 

[Agnem]

That's too bad Goose, but you won't be the only F-150 there! Chin up! You will have a great time anyway.

 

[icanfixall]

So this was a new engine with all 8 cylinders sleeved. You installed the typ4 cam and then installed the engine in the truck or did you drive the truck with the new engine and then install the cam. So we can take a bad set of injectors out along with a bad injection pump. Although a nut or forien object could hold open a intake valve most likely that would cause a piston to hit the valve. We only have around 42 thousands gap between the piston and the bottom of the head. So most likely the valve would be bent by now if they touched. A tight guide might or might not be an issue. If the engine ran fine before the cam installation happened then its something with that job. I'm not saying the cam is at fault but your assembly may be at fault. I have been quite about what you mentioned in the very beganing about torqueing the rocker bolts to 20 lbs. That seems a low number. I thought it was 27 or 8 lbs. But you posted you removed the valve covers and found the rocker bolts loose. So something is wrong right there. Will someone please find the proper torque and post it for the rocker bolts. I know they are a 5/16 bolt and made from a hardened material so they are not a lowes or home depot bolt thats for sure. Running the engine with the covers off at the rpm the engines craps out at may just show you whats going on. It might be messy but things will clean up easy too...