Extra radiator hose???

[Fixnstuff]

If by 'metal tube' you mean the part where the hose connects on the radiator, it doesn't look like a metal tube. It's steel and it appears to be very solid. I'll show a picture of it here. This is the replacement radiator I put in my truck. I got it from a 91 or 92 F350 and it was not the original so it probably wasn't more than 5-10 years old.

I have a C-6 so I just blocked it off with a short piece of 5/8 heater hose with a bolt pushed into the open end after I cut off the threaded section of of the bolt leaving just the smooth shank under the bolt head, some sealant and a small hose clamp.

Later I plan to change the fitting or better, just drill it out to a very slightly larger diameter hole and use if for a coolant filter set up. I don't want to enlarge it much at all or it will be robbing too much coolant from the return hose to the water pump which could result in some water pump cavitation.

On the subject of coolant filter installations, they should be installed in parallel and NOT in series with the return heater hose to the water pump BECAUSE when the filter begins to plug up it will reduce or block the coolant returning to the top of the water pump, creating situation where water pump cavitation can occur.

Whether a filter can be installed in-line wih the heater hose return line to the pump (or not) has been much argued but from my analyses, parallel is best, because: The water pump impeller is also pulling coolant from that return hose from the heater core and if the flow in that hose becomes obstructed or reduced enough by a clogging filter, the pump impeller will pull some vacuum at that location and cause, causing void empty of coolant which can result in cavitation on the vanes of the pump impeller and adjacent surfaces like the backing plate.

I couple of years ago, member IDiot From California posted a photo of a water pump backing plate with serious cavitation pits wondering what could have caused it. I wanted very much to ask some questions in that topic (a medical condition at the time prevented me from doing so) and bring up this coolant filter plumbing controversy, (in-line or parallel installation) and suggest that as one possibility for the cavitation damage seen. Also that can happen in a cooling system that is quite low on coolant.

OK, here are two photos for you. I think the second one is actually more important.
E4OD Radiator Heater Hose Fitting: A lot more fluid runs through that little hole than you might think so when you disconnect the hose from the radiator fluid will run in a stream to the ground so either have your new hose or plug ready to put on or put a pan under it

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The next photo is of the saturated insulation under a leaking overflow reservoir. See notes below:

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That insulation is SOAKED. I was constantly loosing some coolant from the system. Every time I ran the truck and shut it off the pressure in the cooling system was relieved through the pressure cap by pushing coolant into the reservoir and that would leak out, saturate the insulation and run toward the front of the truck underneath the battery tray.

You can't see into any of that area without removing the battery, the reservoir and maybe the battery tray if you want to clean it up and paint it (which I did). Since you can't find a leak anywhere else THIS is where I would look.

 

[Fixnstuff]

Yes that was me. I'll definitely check it thank you, but it's been sitting with just water in it for a week so I'm assuming that's not the problem. I'll have to pull it out to drain the tap water from it before refilling it with coolant so I'll be sure to look it over closely before I put it back.

OOPS, I didn't read that correctly the first time, sorry. So it's had water in it for a week and not leaking out, so that wouldn't be the location of the problem (unless the water is frozen and not leaking because of that)

It would probably be a good idea to put a NEW 13# pressure cap on the radiator before you are finished with this. .

As for the coolant hose we'll see. Not that I don't agree with you, I had the same thoughts, but I don't know what shape the metal tube is in and if that tube looks like it could be leaking I'll have to delete it for the time being until I can find a replacement.

 

[chillman88]

If by 'metal tube' you mean

Tee in the heater hose goes to a metal tube that runs along the front of the block and then has another rubber hose running from that to the radiator.

EDIT: Pictures attached.

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[chillman88]

Well pressure testing the old cap and it wouldn't hold any pressure, at all. New cap seems to hold 13psi just like it's supposed to.

Radiator pressure test netted a loss of 3psi over 15 minutes, starting at 15.5psi or so. I don't see any leaks, but the water has been dripping on the hood all day from the roof overhang on the garage. There was plenty of drips on the bottom of the core support and radiator but nothing I can trace to a leak point. Possibly a bad o-ring on the plastic petcock. I'm thinking it's more likely a slow leak in the pressure tester because I want to be an optimist!

I'm going to drain the radiator tonight and leave it unplugged. Then tomorrow I can pull that tube off and decide if I'm going to fix it or delete it. I'd just leave it, but the rubber is cracked and not worth the risk.

 

[chillman88]

Nope nevermind. Found a leak at a weld on the radiator. I'll try to get a decent picture.

EDIT:

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[79jasper]

What radiator is that?
At least it can be rewelded. Lol

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[chillman88]

What radiator is that?
At least it can be rewelded. Lol

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I don't know. It was in it when I got it. I haven't seen any identifying markings, maybe when I get it pulled.

I don't think the P.O. installed it but I don't think it's very old either.

 

[saburai]

I don't know. It was in it when I got it. I haven't seen any identifying markings, maybe when I get it pulled.

I don't think the P.O. installed it but I don't think it's very old either.

Nope I didn't put it in. The guy that I bought it from more than likely was the one that installed it or should I say had it installed. I don't recall if there was a receipt for it in the stuff that I sent you with the other documentation. I hope you can get it welded up.

 

[Fixnstuff]

That crack was probably caused by expansion of freezing water in the lower tank. I also see a faint line that goes all the way through the weld bead to the right of where the water is streaming out and possibly into the second weld bead to the right. I've used some advanced photo manipulation software to try to enhance the line I'm talking about. It's the white squiggly line:

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I would suggest, DO NOT CLEAN THAT AREA. Leave it AS IS so the person that will be doing the welding repair can see that line and if you have a decent magnifying glass take that with you in case the welder doesn't have one handy.


The crack needs to be ground out and then TIG welded for the best repair. Tungsten Inert Gas welding focuses high heat at the weld point and reduces the amount of heat that is conducted into the surrounding metal and prevents heat warping which causes additional stress on the weld. Although it can also be MiG welded (wire feed with a proper shielding gas) or even oxy-acetyene welded with flux coated aluminum filler rod but excessive heat is an issue with that method. I didn't mention flux cored wire because I just plain do not like it. I HAVE used it, repairing the inside of a barge hull and adding an aditional length to the barge using an expensive top of the line Miller or Hobart MiG machine but I hated using that flux cored wire. The owner who contracted me to do the work, provided the welder and the wire so I didn't have a choice. It was a very dirty job, very dirty and rusted metal difficult to clean and prepare the surfaces and some required welds very difficult to access. I would have much preferred arc welding using a 6010 rod in that dirty environment. In my view, having been a very very well trained professional welder back then, Flux cored wire is more something that amateur welders would use when they don't have a good MiG welder. It seems to be OK for most body shop repairs though, or light duty non critical welds.

Sorry for wandering off topic. I don't know how trained aluminum radiator repair guys would handle a cracked weld repair like that, exactly, I have not done that kind of repair in aluminum, only steel and cast iron but what I would do is grind the weld down a little bit over the crack, including the two weld beads to the right and then use a penetrating dye which will highlight the entire length of the crack and make it clearly visible. In steel and cast iron I drill a small hole at the end of each crack to stop it from propagating further and I suppose that would apply to aluminum as well, then grind a small groove right in he crack and that would be the focus of the heat and filler material, rod for TiG or wire for MiG.

I would suggest closely examining all of the welds when you get the radiator out looking for an obvious defect. Determining whether a weld is a good weld or not, ie, too hot or too cold, lack of penetration, undercutting along the edges etc. is beyond the scope of this inspection. Just look for some formation of cracks in the weld or along the sides of the weld, right next to it. Having had some freezing water in that radiator could have caused a crack somewhere which is not leaking yet.

Finding a radiator shop that actually DOES REPAIRS like this on aluminum radiators might be easier said than done. Most of the shops that advertise radiator repair don't actually repair radiators, most of them just scrap the old radiators and put in new ones and that is all that they are actually trained do. It does not have to be taken to a radiator shop. Any business that employs an experienced TiG welder who specializes in welding aluminum should be able to do a high quality repair. That could be a welding shop, machinist job shop or a business that repairs outboard and inboard boat engines and props- they usually employ a TiG welder. Anyone with a TiG welder in their garage, if having been properly trained in welding school and with some experience could do the repair. Just look at something aluminum that they have welded. It should look at least as good and very similar to the welds on your radiator. I would trust them then. This is NOT a difficult repair as far as TiG welding is concerned and it's also not under a lo of stress as long as you don't allow the the radiator to freeze up again.
Hey, I REALLY DON'T want to tell or suggest how the radiator repair guys should do their jobs, I'm just commenting about my observations from my "not being a radiator repair guy" welding repair experience and what I would personally do.

You mentioned using an extended life coolant. I made that change a few years ago and used 'Final Charge Global" by PEAK. I hate doing radiator flushes and I expect that I will never do another one in my lifetime on my truck.

LASTLY if and when you have to replace the heater core, USE A COATED ALUMINUM HEATER CORE, NOT A COPPER ONE. Using a copper one will cause an electrolytic current to flow between the two dissimilar metals and cause some galvanic corrosion, probably inside the radiator mostly. ALSO you do NOT need to ground the heater core and from technical research that I have read, this is not a good thing to do and can actually make the problem worse. HOWEVER, YOU MUST HAVE GOOD CLEAN GROUNDS EVERYWHERE ELSE. Living in central New York State, in "The Salt Belt" where they use salt on the roads during the winter months, it's especially important to disconnect and thoroughly clean up the ground contact points to insure a good clean ground and then I would buy some of that spray coating/sealant used on battery terminals to insulate them and prevent corrosion and spray some off that on top of the finished connections (after they are connected).

Sorry this post was so long, I have a problem with that. Hopefully what I wrote will be helpful to someone who reads it.

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[chillman88]

Well I got the radiator pulled, worst part of that job was getting a nice sleeve full of coolant pulling the drain and a last mouthful pulling the bottom hose after the system was drained.

I pulled the block drains too since I'm switching to ELC. Put them back in with a coat of rectorseal #5 on the threads.

I don't see any more cracks but some rust staining near the cap has me concerned. I'm hoping that's from a leaky overflow hose or leaky cap.

I'm taking the radiator in to work tomorrow to look at it closer and hopefully get it TIGd up.

 

[tjsea]

@chillman88 once they get the main crack welded up you could always cap off the inlet and outlet and then use your pressure tester to check for any more possible leaks. Also don't forget to flush the heater core with distilled water to get out any left over coolant in there too before you switch to ELC.

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[chillman88]

Yeah I'm planning on pressure testing it again before I put it back in. Normally I would flush the heater core but I can't fit the truck in the garage right now so I'm not sure if that'll happen. Depends on whether or not I can feel my fingers while I'm working on it lol.

The coolant says it's compatible with other coolants so I shouldn't have to worry about gelling or anything, not like there's much in the heater core from a dilution standpoint.

 

[chillman88]

No pictures but there's a nice big patch of JB weld on the bottom. He's going to plate that too just in case. Hoping to have it done by tomorrow and I can pressure test it and pop it back in!