Cummins swap overrated?

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Regardless of any cost, head-scratching, welding, fabricating, research, sitting up nights plotting and planning, etc., etc., the BIG GRIN ON MY FACE within the first half-mile of my Ford/Cummins maiden voyage out of the shop and down the road to the store to eat a celebratory liver-cheese sandwich more than repaid me for all expenses and efforts.

My old 6.9 was a fire-breathing dragon so far as IDIs are capable of, but I knew there were way better things as soon as I turned the first corner.

Before I put the Cummins in my 1985 Ford that I personally put half-a-million miles on, I had several 3/4- and 1-ton trucks and only the one diesel.

Within two months of installing the Cummins, I had FOUR more diesels, all with the same Cummins engine; I would buy another right now and two more tomorrow providing the price is right.

I have Cummins engines on hand that are soon to be installed in the gas-burners around here.

My goal is to have as many major and minor parts the same on all my vehicles; same engines, same transmissions, rears, fronts, etc., and spares on hand rebuilt and ready to go at a moments notice.

I don't see where people are getting that the Cummins is "harder to work on" or more expensive for parts.

Winter before last, I put a water-pump in my Cummins, on the side of Cumberland Parkway, in a complete downpour, in about fifteen minutes; loose the belt, remove two bolts, the pump falls into your hand, NO GASKET = instead, a big fat rubber donut that is re-usable indefinitely, put the rubber donut into the groove of the new pump, set the pump back in it's hole, install the two bolts, and slip the belt back over the pulley and you are done; no hoses to remove; no alternator or steering or A/C brackets and belts to fight with.

I couldn't have swapped the water-pump on my IDI in a dry shop with all my tools in an entire day.

I will say, in the old 6.9s defense, that it still has the original water-pump that came on it new.


I never did properly understand how to tune the fuel on my IDI, messing with a window straight into the guts of the pump, rotating the pump while watching for the right position IN A STUPID DENTIST MIRROR, etc., etc.

On the Cummins, I can adjust any of about five different fuel tuning adjustments, including the main fuel-screw, with a plain old screw-driver, in less time than it took to type this.


For plain old maintenance, EVERYTHING on the Cummins is far easier to get at and service than it ever was on the IDI and the filters are about a fourth as expensive.


Needless to say, I would do one again tomorrow; I am well pleased.

 

[FordGuy100]

I think if you are going to put a lot of miles on your pickup, want a good amount of power, then a cummins swap would be fine. I would feel more comfy putting 300K on a cummins than an IDI.

But...I love IDI's. Just something about them, you know, the hard to start, rattly, leaves oil everywhere, IDI. My pickup will never have anything but an IDI in it. One day it'll get stripped down to the frame, and everything redone, but no repower.

Now if I was to do a swap I would find a F-superduty with an IDI. Take it out and put in either a 8.3 cummins or a DT466. Backed by a eaton tranny, and a divorced mount transfer case. Dana 60 front. Would also have to be a crew cab. One day that'll be my hauler.

 

[Diesel JD]

The swap would be worth it if you have a nice F-series recipient, Cummins ower is what you want, and you get a good deal on a donor truck. At that point you either need to be able to swap over the Dodge transmission or build your own adapters for the Ford transmission. The ready made stuff gets expensive I'm told. As best as I can tell the Cummins has way more HP potential without a complete redesign and can still be economical and streetable. Even building a real butt kicking custom 6.9 like I have talked about here, I doubt very much if it could even hang with a mildly tuned 6bt. I also never have understood why the Cummins get better fuel economy but its usually a fact that they do. 20+ is common and I can never see that with my IDI...or haven't yet with no OD.

 

[Raiden7800]

I would have 2 trucks. 1 with the 6.9/7.3, and the other with the cummins.

This truck I have is my first diesel rig, and I love it. No, it's not fast, it's a pickup truck. For my purposes, the 6.9 is plenty good.

Ultimately, I would like to build a early 60s Dodge 3/4 ton with a Cummins in it.. that would rock, and it would eliminate the need for costly Ford to Dodge parts.... just costly (or not so much) Dodge to early Dodge.

~Rob~

 

[Diesel JD]

I've never seen anything to suggest the Cummins isn't an awesome motor, but everything to suggest the IDIs are under rated. I really like all diesels and I always want to have a 6.9, but might be interested in owning a 7.3 powerstroke or a cummins in some other truck.

 

[big jake]

I have two trucks, one is my original diesel purchase an 86 F250 4X4 with the 6.9 and a C6 and 4.10s and I love it to this day even though it is a pig on the highway at 11 mpg and a top end of a little more than 70 mph.

My other truck is the one in my avatar, and I bought it the way it looks

Its a 97 F250 that had a 96 12 valve Cummins transplanted into it along with a NV5600 (six speed manual) tranny. Axles have been upgraded to a Dana 60 front and Dana 80 rear with 3.54 gears. I did not do the swap, but was able to find the history of it on another website. I was able to contact the guy who did the swap by phone and we had a great conversation. The truck was originally powered by a 460 gasser and when the swap took place in Montana, the instrument cluster was swapped out for a diesel cluster and now shows 233k on the digital odometer.

I have had this truck for 3 years now and for 3 years my old IDI has sat in the front yard with a non-op on the registration.

The Cummins gets me 19 around town and on a trip last summer that took me from Sacramento to Reno, then down US 395 to Palmdale (elevations over 8k) and then over to the coast at Pismo Beach running between 60 and 80 mph, I averaged 26.1 mpg. Two weeks ago I had to tow my Moms 90 Honda Accord from Sacramento to a friends body shop in Santa Rosa, about 100 miles. I rented a UHaul car trailer and made the trip and calculated the mileage at slightly below 23 mpg running at 62 mph.

I am an old dude (57 years old) and have no idea what it would cost to do a swap, but if you can find a donor truck and have the skills, it is the best thing that could ever happen to these old trucks.

 

[hesutton]

I still would like to see the DT360 swap become a more common option. It is only about an inch longer that the Cummins 5.9, and it is a wet sleeve design (which is a very nice advantage over the cummins) and it is still an IH. Plus they can be bombed to serious power if you are so inclined.

I think the biggest reason we don't see this swap is that the DT360 was never used in a light duty pickup like the 5.9 cummins. They aren't as plentiful because of this. But, they are found in a ton of school buses and medium duty trucks.

Me......... DT466 swap is in the future. Not as "simple" as a DT360, but I knew that going in.

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Heath

 

[65sixbanger]

I love the cummins but they are seriously getting overrated around here. No matter what intersection I am sitting at there is a cummins right next to me or at the other side. Teenagers, men and women are obsessed with them. There is atleast twenty at my school. I also love bein the oddball and underdog out of everyone, especially whenI am yanking all of them out of the mud. I bought my truck with no engine almost exactly a year ago and it has been a blast getting it on the road. My goal is to make this thing leak free and get a little more power out of it. BTW, I have only one battery as well

 

[oldmisterbill]

I have to confess-I like the simplicity of the IDI.But in the same breath when I was hauling for a living I felt the IDI had left a lot to be desired. 600 to 1'000 mile days day after day seemed to take a toll on it.I hated it when pulling hills loaded and a Cummins would get behind me then acclerate to pass me when the lane was cleared.I would meet others who had 3-4-500,000 miles on thier Cummins and they were still going strong.
Today I have no reason to do a cummins swap-for personal use and occasional long trips the IDI is just dandy.Mine sets a lot now but I don't hesitat to jump in it and work it when I need it -I would trust it for a cross country trip with just new fanbelts and an poil change.It may need return lines soon (not leaking yet). Just my humble opnion.

 

[funnyman06]

I'm not sure i would ever re-power my truck. The engine it has works fine for me, and with a turbo I'm sure it would only get better.

What i have been thinking about is looking for a cherry F150 4x4 extended cab and doing a 4bt swap in it. For my needs a 250 - 300 HP 4BT with 500ish Ft-lbs of torque would be more than enough. Run that through a 5 or 6 speed manual tranny and i should see highway numbers probably in the low 30s.

My friend has a 97 ram 3500 12v and i love driving his truck. My truck feels like the the rubber bands have to wind up before anything happens, his truck just goes.

 

[NapaBavarian]

There is no clear answer, money wise you are most likley best keeping it stock, if you want to swap then you're best to find a dodge with the engine, transmission, and Tcase you want, swap the whole package, but you really need to look at your circumstances first.

Does your truck run well now? If it does then go buy a 6 pack and a fishing license., if not is it the block or fuel system that is the problem, fuel system is easy to repair, if it aint broke leave it the eff alone!

How often do you drive it? My truck sits at home until I have a load to move, my favorite part about old diesels is the ability to leave them parked most of the time and they maintain reliability! Try that with a newer electronic engine! If it is your DD and you stack on a lot of miles or do a large amount of heavy towing the fuel economy might be be a deciding factor, if you are like me and get 2000-5000 miles a year on the truck it will take a long time to pay for it, now if you are a 20k/year kind of guy then it might pay for its self, I put that on my car that gets 35mpg

It really doesn't matter if you have an international or a cummins, you'll get there! I like the sound of an open pipe on an I6, it sounds like a bus but the V8 sounds good too!

 

[defecater]

When i got my first diesel truck last summer (93 F-350 crew cab dually with a banks sidewinder equipped 7.3) I started saving up my pennies to do some hop ups to it. After spending some time here I was seriously considering a Cummins swap instead for two reasons-
1- I had a friend haul both of my mud racers to a race once with his Dodge Cummins-seriously, I had to keep looking behind us to make shure the trailer was still there because that Cummins pulled it with seemingly no effort.
2-I am a bit disheartened with the IDI engine the more I learn about them- Cavitation, oil cooler leakage issues, head gaskets,blah blah blah.

There was a part of me that never liked the Cummins swap idea because it is getting to the point that everyone is swapping Cummins into anything- in my mind it is akin to the "swap in a sbc" mindset- fawk that noise!!! I want something somewhat different than everybody else. After doing some research on the DT360, it seems to be the obvious choice-

1-more robust than a Cummins
2-different then every other azzhole running a Cummins
3-straight six design

This weekend I am picking up the spicer 5 speed I will be using, and am keeping my eyes on the local craiglist for a DT360 equipped bus

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

How is the DT360 block different from the DT466 ??

All the school-buses in our county are DT466, with a few older 7.3s.

 

[J D Recovery]

I couldn't have swapped the water-pump on my IDI in a dry shop with all my tools in an entire day.

I did my 93 7.3 n/a with p/s an a/c in two hours at home in my driveway! Not an all day job.

 

[GOOSE]

The dt360 and 466 are different blocks, 466 being a bit longer and taller. The front mounts are the same but the rear one is further back on a 466 so that puts the trans back further and changes d-shaft and clutch linkage if swapping between the two. The DT466 has an SAE#2 bellhousing which means a RTO6610 will bolt right up and give you a way cool trans that fits between 1 ton's framerails. The DT360 has SAE#3 housing so an adapter will net you this trans also. Apparantly, '99 up superduties have a larger engine bay making this swap a little easier than in our generation trucks. 466's have been put in mid 70's Fords so our vintage must be able to handle it also. Haven't found weight differences yet. The sled pullers have made big power and rpm's with these motors and provided performance parts availibility for us.

My apologies for taking this thread off topic.

Edit: Cummins 6Bt 1000lbs
dt360 1200lbs
dt466 1400lbs approx.