Cracked frame! Should we part it out?

[tonkadoctor]

the ford engineer i yacked at one day told me it wasnt ordinary steel---

Of course thinks they are special.

Ford also likes to call their Frame steel HSLA too.... which means "high strength low alloy"

In other words. Low carbon structural steel.

36,000 psi rated 1017 steel used in light duty trucks
50,000 and 80,000 psi rated "HSLA" used in medium duty trucks
120,000 psi rated heat treated steel also used in medium duty trucks

1017 steel is what it says to use in the Q-18 -R5 builders bulletin for modifying frames on light duty trucks. This bulletin has been out since Oct 1991, latest revision was Oct 2003 which is the only one I can get my hands on. If somebody has the original Q-18 bulletin it should say exactly what was used on the early OBS trucks.

 

[icanfixall]

7018 is known in welding circles as lo-hi rod.. That meaning its a low hydogen rod. Its widely used for almost everything. I can weld it in any direction but overhead is the easiest for me and vertical is kinda tuff.... The 7024 mud rod was for deck plates on the WW2 ships and they ran it hot like 200 plus amps for 7/17 rod. The holders looked like a by-pod for a rifle. Stirke it off and set it in the holder. It did all the rest following the deck plates. Yes, we kept it around 180 degrees and sometimes much hotter than that. If water splattered it we would just ground it till the rod smoked. Any moisture in it would dry off or explode out of the flux. When the QC guys saw that we had to stop because of the high pressure work we were doing. We tig the root pass twice. Then covered it with 7018, 8018 or 9018 stick rod. 8018 was for 1 1/4 chrome tubing. 9018 was for 2 1/4 chrome tubing.. This tubing was seamless boiler pipe as much as 500 thousands thick wall. Then we had the really big stuff. Welding 6 inch doudle extra heavy pipe required 2 welders working with a "Y" spinger. One welder would weld his side and the other would pickup where he left off. Round and round we went till someobne releieved us. That bevel was about 2 inches wide and 1 3/4 inch deep. Had to be kept hot too... Then when done it was heat treated for stress releiveing. many hours..... Heated up to around 1200 degrees... Held there for x amount of time... Then heat reduced 100 degrees per hour till cool... Don't do that work anymore... Wonder why... Too damn old and lazy ....

 

[dave186]

I have some rod that I have been using to repair equipment, backhoes excavators loaders buckets and that sort of stuff. Its Rockmount Polaris AAA 98,000 psi and high ductility. It has been working really well compared to the 7018 that I had been using much fewer cracked welds than before. They recommend it for frames and I plan on using it to patch up a frame on an old Peterbilt sometime.

this is a bit off topic, but what do you guys know about fixing aluminum truck frames?

and here is a link to rockmounts website http://www.rockmountnassau.com/product1.html

 

[tonkadoctor]

I have some rod that I have been using to repair equipment, backhoes excavators loaders buckets and that sort of stuff. Its Rockmount Polaris AAA 98,000 psi and high ductility. It has been working really well compared to the 7018 that I had been using much fewer cracked welds than before. They recommend it for frames and I plan on using it to patch up a frame on an old Peterbilt sometime.

this is a bit off topic, but what do you guys know about fixing aluminum truck frames?

and here is a link to rockmounts website http://www.rockmountnassau.com/product1.html

Semi truck steel frames are usually 110,000 or 120,000 psi heat treated steel. Use some Brutus AAA for 128,000 psi, not that Polaris AAA


For that aluminum frame. Boy that's been 20+ years since I touched one. IIRC they are also heat treated and you really ain't supposed to be welding on aluminum truck frames. I can understand needing to do a crack repair but if you are simply mounting something, bolt it to the frame.

You're going to need about 250 - 300 amps MIG or TIG, Deep V-groove both sides, pure helium gas, weld both sides, extreemly clean metal and a lot of preheating on that 5/8" - 3/4" aluminum.

Again metal has to be extreemly clean, if it ain't, you'll blow a big hole and have a molten blob of metal on the shop floor instead of a weld.

 

[dave186]

Thats what I figured you would say, I only have 225 amps. this particular truck has been repaired before with a steel insert on the inside and some plate on the outside, now the steel is broken too. we might just yank the engine and trans and send the rest to the junkyard.

I have some of the Brutus rod as well, and didnt really like it, maybe I need to try it again.

 

[Brimmstone]

7018 was also known as "bridge" rod----bridge welding--and---7018 has to be kept verrryyyyyyy dry--as when it starts to get much moisture in it--the tensile can drop as low as 30,000----------bridge welders have a "hot" container to keep rods in as they are welding---

6010 is what is classicly known as bridge rod. I started welding professionally for the state of Ohio and burned alot of 6010 over the 6 months I worked for ODOT. That was a miserable job.

 

[Agnem]

How is 7018 compared to 7014, which I think I generally use a lot of. That and 6011 or 6013?

 

[icanfixall]

6010 and 6011 are a deep penatrating rod generally used for a root pass in plate or pipe welding. After its in you grind out the slag and cover with 7018 for most welds. 6013 is a great penetration weld that can handle rust easier than 6010 or 6011. 8018 is for 1 1/4 chrome and is 80,000 psi and 9018 is for 2 1/4 chrome and is 90,000 psi.

 

[tonkadoctor]

How is 7018 compared to 7014, which I think I generally use a lot of. That and 6011 or 6013?

7018 is a low penetration rod and very sensitive to moisture. 7014 is a medium penetration rod not as sensitive to moisture as 7018.

Both are all position rods and can be used AC or DC.

Basicly, 7014 is smooth, easy, fast and needs just a little more amperage, 7018 is low hydrogen, strong and is used for X-ray quality work. 6010 is often used and ground down good for a root pass under 7018.

IMHO 6010 flat sugs to use, it penetrates deep but has very high spatter. Better have some good leathers or this stuff will make you dance..... Decided to try some I had laying around today for the first time in many years to remember why I don't like using it

 

[Agnem]

I think 6011 is marketed as a good verticle rod. I used a lot of that welding up the last trailer I did, and yes it does make a mess and welds that are only functional and not pretty.

 

[icanfixall]

Any good welding supply can sell you something called Spatteroff. You paint it on before you run the 6010 rod and the spatter almost rubs off. We had another really ugly name for that stuff... Can't post it here... Interesting to see other members trained in the art of welding. Kinda amazing... Anybody know the arc in arc welding is hotter than the Sun?? Its around 11,000 degrees but not for very long....

 

[tonkadoctor]

6011 is a good general purpose all position rod. Deep penetration like 6010 but can be used AC or DC (6010 DC only).

Just taking a break using that stuff right now.

Oh and MEL, 6011 can be pretty..... Practice;p



Gary, I didn't know the arc was that hot. All I can tell you is that lone piece of spatter that clears your helmet and leathers and finds the plumbers crack can't cool fast enough ......... Spatter off ain't helping that one

 

[94f450sd]

i cant stick or gas weld to save my ass.i can mig like a mother though.ive never used a tig.dont know if i could weld aluminum and knowing how much of a PITA aluminum is id rather pay somebody else to do it.i wont cut a frame in half and weld it back together.i dont trust my welds that much especially on something like a car carrier like mine.would i attack your truck?you bet ya.thats an easy fix.i cant tell you how many of the older chevy/GMC trucks ive welded up around the steering boxes and and rear shock mounts.big problem with the older gm trucks with lift kits and big tires,they break frames if you turn the wheel without the truck rolling.ive done cracked/broken crossmembers,body panel replacements,body sections,patch panels.dont do much now as i only have a small lincoln 110V mig but its big enough for what i need to do.anything i cant handle goes to somebody else now.dont want to deal with it anymore.


you shoulda seen the wire used to weld the frame on my truck.the guy that did it for me has a mig setup that runs off his arc welder.this thing is NASTY!!!the wire he used looked like a freaking coat hanger.he said it was some off the wall tensile strength.he said the frame around the weld will break before the welds do.i actually got to use it myself to fix the pivot point on my bed.and holy cow!!!!talk about penetration and some nice welds.this guy goes over kill on everything.if he only needs a double frame he builds a truck with a triple frame.and this mig setup is used to plug weld all three frame pieces together between bolts and crossmembers.

our newest member from my area might get to meet this dude soon.this is a guy you want to know incase youre in a jam and need something welded.

 

[Brimmstone]

I've run a wire feed with that size wire on large anchor bolts for a power plant in the past. It was a royal pain to feed the wire through the whip to the gun. It was a flux cored wire and man did it spatter and leave slag. I used to run it extra hot so that when I got done and it cooled the slag would usually just fall off. As to 6010 and 6011 not being able to be pretty it just takes practice. I've done passes with 6010 that looked like glass when it was done.

 

[94f450sd]

sometimes i wish i knew more about welding but i know enough to be able to do what i need to do.if i cant do it i just pay my friend to do it for me.i know he uses 6010,6011,7014,7018 and others but those are the four common rods he uses when stick welding.every weld he does looks like glass when its done.its unbelievable the stuff this guy can do with a torch and a welder.if he got his head out his butt he could be making some serious money around here as real good welding shops are hard to find.especially a shop that can be trusted to do a frame splice correctly.