Cetane Booster beneficial in a 7.3 idi?

[pastorjeep]

Dump a qt of 5w-30 in at next fill up and stand there and listen. When the lubricated fuel gets to the engine the clatter quiets right down. I ran a 84' 6.9 with 300K miles on straight wmo for two years while going to college. It was a rare occasion that she got a tank of diesel at that time because it was 4.25 a gal around here.

 

[CBRF3]

I have found HOWES meaner cleaner for cleaning and HOWES diesel treat are some of best out there they have some of the most concentrated treatment the power service stuff ounce for ounce has like 1/4 the treatment of the HOWES so get alot more for your money with the HOWES also there has been tests for antigel and again the HOWES is much stronger and you get more of it AKA you have to purchase it less and you get more for your money.

The higher concentration of antigel / lubricity additives / fuel system cleaners is around 50%+ higher than with power service stuff and you get a larger bottle for the same price meaning you can get more treatments of your fuel for less money and it is very readily available nearly everywhere this is why I like HOWES cost / simplicity / availability and it just works simple as that.

I like to take diesel treat and meaner cleaner 50/50 1gallon each then add 1/2 a quart of Klots super techniplate 2stroke oil and that is my go to and has proven to protect the injection pump and injectors. I want to also point out it quiets down the diesel clatter and gives a pretty good performance boost. The 2 stroke oil helps increase compression a bit and leaves a lubrication film on the internal parts and doesn't add soot make a batch and test it vs power service it will suprise you this mix has very little soot vs power service and offers around 50%+ more lubrication and helps starting our engines and gives a substantial power / fuel mileage increase.


Power service puts off alot of soot that plugs exhaust systems up in modern diesels and EGR's vs HOWES so again another reason i prefer HOWES and my mix offers a big upgrade over HOWES alone especially in our IDI's.

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Diesel additive burn tests in the video he had alot of 2stroke oil in the fuel and also was the cheap walmart 2stroke oil if remember correctly a lower ratio would have left almost 0 soot but during the burn the 2stroke oil actually put off less smoke than the power service did which is very telling.

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[Cubey]

Dump a qt of 5w-30 in at next fill up and stand there and listen. When the lubricated fuel gets to the engine the clatter quiets right down.

A few years ago, I put about 1/2 qt of Lucas in my F250 between oil changes when the oil level was down a quart or more (from burning) and it made it get LOT more quiet once it got into the system.

 

[Dane Rickford]

I have found HOWES meaner cleaner for cleaning and HOWES diesel treat are some of best out there they have some of the most concentrated treatment the power service stuff ounce for ounce has like 1/4 the treatment of the HOWES so get alot more for your money with the HOWES also there has been tests for antigel and again the HOWES is much stronger and you get more of it AKA you have to purchase it less and you get more for your money.

The higher concentration of antigel / lubricity additives / fuel system cleaners is around 50%+ higher than with power service stuff and you get a larger bottle for the same price meaning you can get more treatments of your fuel for less money and it is very readily available nearly everywhere this is why I like HOWES cost / simplicity / availability and it just works simple as that.

I like to take diesel treat and meaner cleaner 50/50 1gallon each then add 1/2 a quart of Klots super techniplate 2stroke oil and that is my go to and has proven to protect the injection pump and injectors. I want to also point out it quiets down the diesel clatter and gives a pretty good performance boost. The 2 stroke oil helps increase compression a bit and leaves a lubrication film on the internal parts and doesn't add soot make a batch and test it vs power service it will suprise you this mix has very little soot vs power service and offers around 50%+ more lubrication and helps starting our engines and gives a substantial power / fuel mileage increase.


Power service puts off alot of soot that plugs exhaust systems up in modern diesels and EGR's vs HOWES so again another reason i prefer HOWES and my mix offers a big upgrade over HOWES alone especially in our IDI's.

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Diesel additive burn tests in the video he had alot of 2stroke oil in the fuel and also was the cheap walmart 2stroke oil if remember correctly a lower ratio would have left almost 0 soot but during the burn the 2stroke oil actually put off less smoke than the power service did which is very telling.

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How much of your mix do you add per gallon of diesel?

 

[CBRF3]

How much of your mix do you add per gallon of diesel?

i use the normal dose amount on the HOWES diesel treat bottle

• Above 0 degrees (F): 1 oz. to 5 Gallons
  
  
• Below 0 degrees (F): 1 oz. to 2½ Gallons

also i want to point out the 2 stroke oil KLOTZ has a anti thickening agent aka antigel ( if want to use another 2 stroke oil look for mineral 2 stroke oil so it will blend with the diesel synthetic 2stroke oil often wont blend well and if let it set for a while will seperate ) so it doesn't effect it in a negative and actually benefits it for cold weather keep in mind I am from Southern Illinois and we got some really cold wet icey snowy winters and this mix has always done me well and it has always left a lubricating film on my injectors and such even after letting them set for years they do not stick or rust. I rebuild my own injectors and set my pop pressure to 1950psi and change the nozzles for new ones if the spray pattern is funny or do not get the injector chirp i like. I always keep 8 or so new nozzles on hand and always got 6-8 already rebuilt injectors ready to go if needed and plenty of assorted shims to set my pop pressure on my injectors yes is time consuming but is money saving and you know what you got not like with alot of rebuilt injectors you buy online and at auto parts stores theyre like throwing your money out the window alot of times and the injectors are literally crap and fail or go out of spec within a month or 2 or are so out of balance each injector pops at different pressures this makes our engines run extremely rough and irradic.

I want to also point out my mix has also netted me better fuel mileage and better performance and a very clean fuel system along with never had my fuel gel on me ever when using my mix and has prolonged my injector life along with injection pump life given i rebuild my own injectors i would say that I would know how much wear my injectors are taking given i disassemble them and go thru them with a fine tooth comb before rebuilding them. I also can very well tell if i forget to add my mix they are harder to start run rougher and fuel mileage is lower and well the performance is slightly lower and motor is noisier.

We need our injectors to pop very close to same pressure this way our detination event timings in the motor is the same if you have low pop pressure on one injector and high to normal on another and this is same across entire set of injectors timing this motor will not happen and motor will have higher injector pop pressure cylinders running retarded and lower injector pop pressure cylinders running to advanced its a recipe for disaster and this can destroy our motors along with make our motors have very poor performance and poor fuel mileage.



I like to take HOWES diesel treat and HOWES meaner cleaner 50/50 1gallon ( 128oz ) each then add 1/2 a quart ( 16oz )of Klotz super techniplate 2stroke oil from this you can take and downscale it for smaller batches fairly straight forward on the mix given have gave you a straight mix ratio to go by to downscale it from. I will say this also if want to use another 2 stroke oil look for mineral 2 stroke oil so it will blend with the diesel synthetic 2stroke oil wont blend properly and can seperate if let it set. I like KLOTZ because it blends well with all fuels pretty much and is designed to even blend with alcohol which some diesel additives use a bit of to bond the water to it and to keep fuel from gelling sometimes is used in the pump diesel at the pump hince why I suggest the KLOTZ so highly save yourself risk of trouble or headache.

if want to use 32oz HOWES meaner cleaner and HOWES 32oz diesel treat mix you would use 4oz of Klotz super techniplate this is why i gave the 1gallon mix ratio is very easy to break it down for smaller batches its very simple to adjust your ratio when you use a equally dividable amount but the mix i just gave is good for around 200 gallons above 0 degrees f and below 0 degrees f is good for 100 gallons or so i always slightly overdose ( often run high percentage biodiesel blends ) hince why my numbers for fuel coverage is a little low compared to the normal on the package treatment but i have found can go by the actual label for the diesel treat ratio and be just fine if run regular pump diesel which i often don't anymore but used to strictly run regular pump diesel with this mix for years and years.

PLZ do not over dose on the 2 stroke oil though when making your batch as it makes them a bit harder to start if you do I came up with my ratio over around a 15+yr period and about 10+ of these trucks / engines and dialed in my mix over the years and roughly 1million miles across my trucks / engines so I would say I have tested my mix pretty thoroughly.

 

[Fredrickson]

This thread has taken a bit of a detour from the original 'Cetane Booster'
so while we are discussing additives.. I thought I would put these other resource in the mix



From a few years back .. A DIESEL FUEL LUBRICITY ADDITIVES STUDY compares several products and the presents the results .. (Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf attached)

Cummins press release for endorsing Power Service additives
https://www.cummins.com/news/releas...ommends-power-service-diesel-kleen-cetane-and

Alaska Center for Energy and Power - interesting read regarding diesel generators in Alaska and in sights regarding 'best practices' (pdf attached)

A doctoral thesis presenting an investigation of several aspects of fuel additive performance - goes into detail describing effects of cetane, lubricity and HFRR testing, and all sorts of big brain stuff.
(pdf attached) https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f505/71c38840952df56e5f85e0b40a1fa4050489.pdf

A pretty good diesel primer by Chevron - covers all sorts of basic info about anything and all things diesel from fuel basics to temperature effects to parafin, to refining, and more. (Chevron2007.pdf)


Enjoy!

 

[CBRF3]

This thread has taken a bit of a detour from the original 'Cetane Booster'
so while we are discussing additives.. I thought I would put these other resource in the mix



From a few years back .. A DIESEL FUEL LUBRICITY ADDITIVES STUDY compares several products and the presents the results .. (Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf attached)

Cummins press release for endorsing Power Service additives
https://www.cummins.com/news/releas...ommends-power-service-diesel-kleen-cetane-and

Alaska Center for Energy and Power - interesting read regarding diesel generators in Alaska and in sights regarding 'best practices' (pdf attached)

A doctoral thesis presenting an investigation of several aspects of fuel additive performance - goes into detail describing effects of cetane, lubricity and HFRR testing, and all sorts of big brain stuff.
(pdf attached) https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f505/71c38840952df56e5f85e0b40a1fa4050489.pdf

A pretty good diesel primer by Chevron - covers all sorts of basic info about anything and all things diesel from fuel basics to temperature effects to parafin, to refining, and more. (Chevron2007.pdf)


Enjoy!

Key thing to take out of most of those tests you linked they apply to common rail direct injected diesels or direct injected not our Indirect Injected Diesels in general our stanadyne DB2 injection pumps / injectors / pre cups and pistons are a totally different breed in so many ways compared to say the cummins P pump / VE pump and direct injected diesels in general and those gens sets you refer to and 95% of the tests almost all were common rail or direct injected a common rail system runs on alot more pressure than ours and run on a fundamentally different principle ( direct injected vs indirect injected ) so most of those tests are null and void to us 6.9 / 7.3 idi owners.

our motors use a pre cup in the cylinder head to get our fuel burning and use velocity and a fairly straight stream hitting the bottom of the hot pre cup to flash our fuel into vapor ( hince why our glow plugs are in the pre cup directly inline of the injector and pre cup outlet to cylinder to allow vaporization of fuel when pre cup is cold aka motor is cold ) and this is also why timing our motors is so critical to advanced we melt the glow plugs inside the pre cup where it starts the burn and send metal fragments directly into our motor. The tests you linked are mainly common rail or direct injected setups and the few that aren't again use a totally different injection setup ( direct injected or common rail ) they mist the fuel at the injector itself out of multiple ports ( ours is a pretty well straight stream not mist ) directly above the piston and mixxes the air that way. The point is ours use a single port and a pretty straight stream into the hot pre cup and when it exits the pre cup as a vapor it goes into a special spot in our pistons called a ricardo cup where it starts a flame swirl from a vertical angle where it mixes the air ( direct injected do a horizontal rotation to mix air and fuel vapor and rely on the injector to do the vaporization unlike ours ) and the fuel vapor to make it burn so again those tests do not apply to our injectors or injection pump systems and fundamentally our IDI 6.9 / 7.3 motors.


This is why our engines are so good for biodiesel and alternative fuels like WMO ( waste Motor Oil / used hydraulic oil / used transmission fluid and such ) the hot pre cup setup and low pop pressure along with fairly straight stream into hot pre cup and single injector port and pure simplicity of design makes our engine in the top 5 for alternative fuels.

try to run a direct injected motor on waste motor oil or bio diesel higher blends they have alot of issues even if theyre not a common rail like say a cummins 12v 5.9l. The issue is the injection system mainly the injectors multiple small holes and reliance on the injector to vaporize the fuel our IDI pre cup motors are not prone to these issues because as long as our injectors do not dribble / leak and pop at a similar and acceptable pressure the hot pre cup is what vaporizes the fuel not the injectors in our motors and our injector ports are not prone to plugging due to large single hole and pintle design unlike common rail and direct injected diesels.

https://www.oilburners.net/posts/867681/ so you can see what i mean and how different our motors are compared to direct injected or common rail setups

Harry-Ricardo-based indirect-injection combustion system. Coined the "Comet" design, the proven induction swirl chamber in the engine's cylinders allowed for controlled, efficient, and manageable airflow.

our piston design indirect injected using pre cup and ricardo bowl https://www.jegs.com/i/Clevite-MAHLE/695/2243508/10002/-1

direct injected typical piston https://puredieselpower.com/dodge-p...mins-mahle-tapered-large-bowl-piston-kit.html

I am sure if you look at the piston design you can see the ignition of the fuel and how the engine fundamentally runs then look at those tests and look at them mainly being common rail or direct injected you can come to the conclusion those tests really do not apply for our 6.9 / 7.3 idi engines as ours are a totally different breed and run on very different principles.

 

[dan-o]

I can't say anything about the others, but Stanadyne worked wonders in my '89 idi. I was never much for miracle results that came from a can, but day-amm, that stuff worked fast and now it is running great.
As far as mileage being increased, I haven't got good numbers yet. I plan on using it in every tank, though, just for the lubrication.

 

[Fredrickson]

Thanks CBRF3! This is how I learn even more.

 

[Kevin 007]

Key thing to take out of most of those tests you linked they apply to common rail direct injected diesels or direct injected not our Indirect Injected Diesels in general our stanadyne DB2 injection pumps / injectors / pre cups and pistons are a totally different breed in so many ways compared to say the cummins P pump / VE pump and direct injected diesels in general and those gens sets you refer to and 95% of the tests almost all were common rail or direct injected a common rail system runs on alot more pressure than ours and run on a fundamentally different principle ( direct injected vs indirect injected ) so most of those tests are null and void to us 6.9 / 7.3 idi owners.

our motors use a pre cup in the cylinder head to get our fuel burning and use velocity and a fairly straight stream hitting the bottom of the hot pre cup to flash our fuel into vapor ( hince why our glow plugs are in the pre cup directly inline of the injector and pre cup outlet to cylinder to allow vaporization of fuel when pre cup is cold aka motor is cold ) and this is also why timing our motors is so critical to advanced we melt the glow plugs inside the pre cup where it starts the burn and send metal fragments directly into our motor. The tests you linked are mainly common rail or direct injected setups and the few that aren't again use a totally different injection setup ( direct injected or common rail ) they mist the fuel at the injector itself out of multiple ports ( ours is a pretty well straight stream not mist ) directly above the piston and mixxes the air that way. The point is ours use a single port and a pretty straight stream into the hot pre cup and when it exits the pre cup as a vapor it goes into a special spot in our pistons called a ricardo cup where it starts a flame swirl from a vertical angle where it mixes the air ( direct injected do a horizontal rotation to mix air and fuel vapor and rely on the injector to do the vaporization unlike ours ) and the fuel vapor to make it burn so again those tests do not apply to our injectors or injection pump systems and fundamentally our IDI 6.9 / 7.3 motors.


This is why our engines are so good for biodiesel and alternative fuels like WMO ( waste Motor Oil / used hydraulic oil / used transmission fluid and such ) the hot pre cup setup and low pop pressure along with fairly straight stream into hot pre cup and single injector port and pure simplicity of design makes our engine in the top 5 for alternative fuels.

try to run a direct injected motor on waste motor oil or bio diesel higher blends they have alot of issues even if theyre not a common rail like say a cummins 12v 5.9l. The issue is the injection system mainly the injectors multiple small holes and reliance on the injector to vaporize the fuel our IDI pre cup motors are not prone to these issues because as long as our injectors do not dribble / leak and pop at a similar and acceptable pressure the hot pre cup is what vaporizes the fuel not the injectors in our motors and our injector ports are not prone to plugging due to large single hole and pintle design unlike common rail and direct injected diesels.

https://www.oilburners.net/posts/867681/ so you can see what i mean and how different our motors are compared to direct injected or common rail setups

Harry-Ricardo-based indirect-injection combustion system. Coined the "Comet" design, the proven induction swirl chamber in the engine's cylinders allowed for controlled, efficient, and manageable airflow.

our piston design indirect injected using pre cup and ricardo bowl https://www.jegs.com/i/Clevite-MAHLE/695/2243508/10002/-1

direct injected typical piston https://puredieselpower.com/dodge-p...mins-mahle-tapered-large-bowl-piston-kit.html

I am sure if you look at the piston design you can see the ignition of the fuel and how the engine fundamentally runs then look at those tests and look at them mainly being common rail or direct injected you can come to the conclusion those tests really do not apply for our 6.9 / 7.3 idi engines as ours are a totally different breed and run on very different principles.

Well said.

 

[Isaac Ristow]

I'm just gonna add that my truck got a respectable 16mpg towing my 9000lb toy hauler though the valleys all 2 lane highway 60mph very hilly and curvy. 84 F250 studded rebuilt 7.3, injectors from Russ, Rajay turbo system, 7* btdc timing, 4.10 gears, ZF5, fuel screw almost maxed on na pump. I dumped a quart of atf in each tank at fill up seemed to really like it.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[CBRF3]

I'm just gonna add that my truck got a respectable 16mpg towing my 9000lb toy hauler though the valleys all 2 lane highway 60mph very hilly and curvy. 84 F250 studded rebuilt 7.3, injectors from Russ, Rajay turbo system, 7* btdc timing, 4.10 gears, ZF5, fuel screw almost maxed on na pump. I dumped a quart of atf in each tank at fill up seemed to really like it.

You must be registered for see images attach

I used to do the ATF thing but got pulled over and DOT tried to say i had farm / offroad diesel in my tanks years ago they tried to fine me like $1500 and threatened me with upto 10yrs in prison and held me at the weigh station for nearly 16hrs till test results came back and i was handcuffed setting in theyre holding cell. I was towing my fifth wheel camper and had my ex and daughter stuck in the camper unable to run gen set or anything in 100F+ heat in Nevada so i will not do the transmission fluid thing again as that was a total nightmare.

The DOT officers excuse was a unusual smelling exhaust red flagged something was off and he decided to inspect the truck and such and they fully searched the camper and all 4 officers total again it was a total nightmare keep in mind I have never done drugs and do not drink or anything and have a clean record outside of minor traffic.

I told him right then and there i use transmission fluid to add lubricity and to help keep fuel system clean because of my engine was never designed for ULSD he said I will be the judge of that and then handcuffed me put me in holding cell.

 

[chillman88]

@CBRF3 Sounds like you were the "lucky" guy to come along after he got done with someone who made him mad. Although, some of those guys do just get their kicks harassing people.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

The DOT officers excuse was a unusual smelling exhaust red flagged something was off and he decided to inspect the truck

That officer probably has never smelled the exhaust from an older diesel like ours either.

 

[CBRF3]

@CBRF3 Sounds like you were the "lucky" guy to come along after he got done with someone who made him mad. Although, some of those guys do just get their kicks harassing people.

That officer probably has never smelled the exhaust from an older diesel like ours either.

Yes i agree or he was having a bad day and been fighting with his GF or wife or something and took that anger to work with him or other option is he was a well i cant say that on here

I will say this also i did kind of get a bit irritated when he said my exhaust smelled funny and well i told him its transmission fluid i added to the fuel for lubricity and cleaning and well he got pretty well aggressive from that point on I was young at time so i may have came off as cocky and well you know the other word which I cant say here.