Buying 85 IDI ATS turbo motorhome!
- Thread starter Cubey
- Start date
Oh I thought it was a direct replacement...
carry on.
carry on.
Since I finished the mech lift pump to Holley Red conversion, I decided to move on to the power steering pressure hose today. I figured it would be a couple hours, no big deal. (Wrong thing to think/say, I know) It got me cursing like a sailor when trying to get the end with the o-ring connected to the back of the pump. I had to undo the gear side which I did first, do the pump side first instead, then do the gear side. That worked.
But "old vehicle repair" law got me. Initially, I tried undoing the return line at the steering gear at first by mistake because it's right next to the pressure line connection at the gear. I didn't pay close enough attention to which was which. No big deal right? Just tighten it back.
Nah, the line cracked because the nut is frozen to the line from rust/age and was spewing fluid.
I had to completely break it to get it off.
I mean, it's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. I'm parked at my mom's house, so I can wait a week to get the part I ordered from ebay for under $13 (vs $20-26 in stores). It saves me having to go to the store to pick it up too. I have electric, water and sewer all here for the RV and the neighborhood is good for walking my dog, so yeah I can't really complain. I had just started it and turned the wheels side to side to bleed out air after replacing the pressure hose, so I caught it almost immediately and threw a pan back under to the dripping fluid.
Odds are, a shop might have done the same thing. I almost couldn't get the old pressure hose off at the gear because it had a huge 16mm nut in such a tiny cramped space. I had to use an open ended wrench and it probably took me half and hour of 1/16 turns, mostly fighting to line up the wrench for every attempt at turning the nut. Funny how it wasn't seized up and didn't break, just the one I actually still needed and wasn't leaking prior. The new one is only 1/2" / 13mm so it's much easier to loosen and tighten in the limited space.
So yeah, there is a nice shiny new pressure line, but no return at the moment!
But "old vehicle repair" law got me. Initially, I tried undoing the return line at the steering gear at first by mistake because it's right next to the pressure line connection at the gear. I didn't pay close enough attention to which was which. No big deal right? Just tighten it back.
Nah, the line cracked because the nut is frozen to the line from rust/age and was spewing fluid.
I had to completely break it to get it off.
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I mean, it's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. I'm parked at my mom's house, so I can wait a week to get the part I ordered from ebay for under $13 (vs $20-26 in stores). It saves me having to go to the store to pick it up too. I have electric, water and sewer all here for the RV and the neighborhood is good for walking my dog, so yeah I can't really complain. I had just started it and turned the wheels side to side to bleed out air after replacing the pressure hose, so I caught it almost immediately and threw a pan back under to the dripping fluid.
Odds are, a shop might have done the same thing. I almost couldn't get the old pressure hose off at the gear because it had a huge 16mm nut in such a tiny cramped space. I had to use an open ended wrench and it probably took me half and hour of 1/16 turns, mostly fighting to line up the wrench for every attempt at turning the nut. Funny how it wasn't seized up and didn't break, just the one I actually still needed and wasn't leaking prior. The new one is only 1/2" / 13mm so it's much easier to loosen and tighten in the limited space.
So yeah, there is a nice shiny new pressure line, but no return at the moment!
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I find they're much easier to get to if you remove the fenders and engine first 
I'm in the rust belt. 99% of the time if I have to touch those lines I'll just break them off first and use a socket on the fittings. They're so frequently seized up its not worth fighting them. If I'm really feeling ambitious I'll put a good coating of anti-seize between the nut and the line to prevent/reduce the seizing of the nut to the line. Same with brake line fittings.
I'm in the rust belt. 99% of the time if I have to touch those lines I'll just break them off first and use a socket on the fittings. They're so frequently seized up its not worth fighting them. If I'm really feeling ambitious I'll put a good coating of anti-seize between the nut and the line to prevent/reduce the seizing of the nut to the line. Same with brake line fittings.
IDIBRONCO
IDIBRONCO
Good idea. I'll have to remember that one in the future.I find they're much easier to get to if you remove the fenders and engine first
I'm in the rust belt. 99% of the time if I have to touch those lines I'll just break them off first and use a socket on the fittings. They're so frequently seized up its not worth fighting them. If I'm really feeling ambitious I'll put a good coating of anti-seize between the nut and the line to prevent/reduce the seizing of the nut to the line. Same with brake line fittings.
I find they're much easier to get to if you remove the fenders and engine first
Reaching it by hand wasn't the problem, but rather the space for range of motion for the wrench. I did unbolt the cruise servo and move it to the side, as well as and pull loose the big vac hose coming from the pump to get it out of the way. The big coil of brake line coming off of the master cylinder was the main thing kind of in the way but not too much. I had to attach the pump end of the hose by laying on the ground and reaching from underneath because you can't even see it when standing at the grill.
Yeah I've had a few things the only way to get them out was a stubby wrench. Doesn't help with leverage though!
Stubby wouldn't help in this case, but maybe a crow's foot with a socket wrench and short extension would have.
This afternoon I replaced the wiper motor with a $32 NOS one from ebay. It solved the only high speed and no parking problem.
It's not an easy job, but it could have been worse. It took me over 2 hours, working a bit slowly like I do. I found that I needed to remove the dash panel with the wiper & headlight switch to get better access to the top and left mounting bolts, which the Chilton manual doesn't mention. Setting the parking brake also opens access to the left mounting bolt that is otherwise blocked.
You have to transfer the 3 mounting bushings and the rubber cone seal that is supposed to keep water from getting inside the cab. And of course the arm that connects the motor to the linkage.
You have to remove the 2 screws that hold the fuse panel to this bracket and then remove the 2 bolts that hold this bracket in. Getting the bracket out and back in isn't too easy due to wire bunches and other brackets being in the way. The upper bolt had to be taped to a deep socket and a LONG extension used to put it back.
The white thing visible under the vent is the top portion of old wiper motor.
Lined up the arrows on the arm and the new motor.
But then I pulled the arm back off and used a 3/4" socket and a dead blow hammer to install the arm AFTER the motor as mounted so I didn't have to fish it through the smallish hole.
If you don't have one of these screwdrivers, GET ONE! It makes removing and installing the 4 screws down into the cowl a breeze. No dropping them in and having to fish them back out.
Now it's working perfectly.
It's not an easy job, but it could have been worse. It took me over 2 hours, working a bit slowly like I do. I found that I needed to remove the dash panel with the wiper & headlight switch to get better access to the top and left mounting bolts, which the Chilton manual doesn't mention. Setting the parking brake also opens access to the left mounting bolt that is otherwise blocked.
You have to transfer the 3 mounting bushings and the rubber cone seal that is supposed to keep water from getting inside the cab. And of course the arm that connects the motor to the linkage.
You have to remove the 2 screws that hold the fuse panel to this bracket and then remove the 2 bolts that hold this bracket in. Getting the bracket out and back in isn't too easy due to wire bunches and other brackets being in the way. The upper bolt had to be taped to a deep socket and a LONG extension used to put it back.
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The white thing visible under the vent is the top portion of old wiper motor.
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Lined up the arrows on the arm and the new motor.
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But then I pulled the arm back off and used a 3/4" socket and a dead blow hammer to install the arm AFTER the motor as mounted so I didn't have to fish it through the smallish hole.
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If you don't have one of these screwdrivers, GET ONE! It makes removing and installing the 4 screws down into the cowl a breeze. No dropping them in and having to fish them back out.
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Now it's working perfectly.
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I got the fiberglass air dam installed... again. When I put it back on last year, the damaged fiberglass at the right side fender flare totally broke off because it was under pressure from being hard against the right side sway bar mount.
I dunno why it wasn't lining up well anymore. I had to use a Dremel cutoff wheel to cut the slots for clearing the right side sway bar mount and trans cooler lines, but whatever. It already had areas cut out, but they weren't big enough.
I used two heavy duty L braces I was given (after I bent them out some) to repair the damaged fiberglass. The bolts mostly hide behind the bumper, so it doesn't look bad.
Now it's not under pressure like it was before.
Maybe, just maybe, this will help with mpg slightly.
I dunno why it wasn't lining up well anymore. I had to use a Dremel cutoff wheel to cut the slots for clearing the right side sway bar mount and trans cooler lines, but whatever. It already had areas cut out, but they weren't big enough.
I used two heavy duty L braces I was given (after I bent them out some) to repair the damaged fiberglass. The bolts mostly hide behind the bumper, so it doesn't look bad.
Now it's not under pressure like it was before.
Maybe, just maybe, this will help with mpg slightly.
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I finally got around to hack job fixing the blower/ac fuse. When the fuse panel was unmounted for replacing the wiper motor, I found the wire end behind it on the right side a bit crispy. The bakelite fuse block is broken for the fuse holder part on the right side and probably made contact with the grounded plate behind it.
For the time being, I cut off the messed up fuse clamp thing, spliced in a blade fuse holder to that wire, and just used a ring terminal with a 1/4" nut and bolt stuck in the other end of the fuse holder.
It calls for a 35A fuse, but I may see how it does with a 30A.
The blade fuses were blown in a weird way, at the end in the metal area. I'm guessing the bare crispy wire was the problem so close to the grounded mounting plate.
Blower is blowing, so maybe it'll hold up.
The proper way would be to splice the fuse holder directly, but it doesn't look easy to get at the wire back there, so I'll try this for now.
Maybe Ill get some cheap R134a and try charging it too, since I got a used gauge/filler last year for $1.
Just need to know how much it'll need for a system at 0psi right now. Yeah it could be leaking, but who knows when the retrofit was done, maybe 20 years ago.
For the time being, I cut off the messed up fuse clamp thing, spliced in a blade fuse holder to that wire, and just used a ring terminal with a 1/4" nut and bolt stuck in the other end of the fuse holder.
It calls for a 35A fuse, but I may see how it does with a 30A.
The blade fuses were blown in a weird way, at the end in the metal area. I'm guessing the bare crispy wire was the problem so close to the grounded mounting plate.
Blower is blowing, so maybe it'll hold up.
The proper way would be to splice the fuse holder directly, but it doesn't look easy to get at the wire back there, so I'll try this for now.
Maybe Ill get some cheap R134a and try charging it too, since I got a used gauge/filler last year for $1.
Just need to know how much it'll need for a system at 0psi right now. Yeah it could be leaking, but who knows when the retrofit was done, maybe 20 years ago.
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I finally decided to take the time to move the pyrometer to a place I can see it without having to lean to the side and look far down to read it. The original place somebody put it, by the doghouse on the lowest plastic on the dash, made it so I couldn't see it when driving because the steering wheel block it's view. The sensor wire is super long so it can fit trucks, so that was no problem reaching. It was coiled up in the engine compartment because it was so long. Only a bit is coiled in there now.
I didn't wire up the light for it yet because I need some wire terminals, and I pretty much never drive at night anyway. I did run an old electric heater's cord so it's just a matter of wiring up both ends "some day".
I can't move the "manifold pressure" (boost) gauge because it needs a longer plastic tube, but I feel that's less important to monitor than pyro. This thing is done stock engine wise with a basic ATS 085, so it's not hardly gonna go crazy with pressure in this brick of an RV. Pyro is what climbs really fast (even with a mechanical lift pump).
I didn't wire up the light for it yet because I need some wire terminals, and I pretty much never drive at night anyway. I did run an old electric heater's cord so it's just a matter of wiring up both ends "some day".
I can't move the "manifold pressure" (boost) gauge because it needs a longer plastic tube, but I feel that's less important to monitor than pyro. This thing is done stock engine wise with a basic ATS 085, so it's not hardly gonna go crazy with pressure in this brick of an RV. Pyro is what climbs really fast (even with a mechanical lift pump).
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IDIBRONCO
IDIBRONCO
I think you did the right thing there. The pyro is important enough that you should be able to glance at it easily whenever you want to.
I decided to poke around on ebay for a good replacement fuel pump for the generator. The $8 cheapo one didn't last at all before it burned out. It doesn't pull any power when plugged in along side a 12v meter like it would if it was seized. (The voltage reading doesn't drop). It has to pull the gas a LONG way from the small dedicated gasoline tank and lift it up to the generator, so maybe it just couldn't handle that. Maybe being bolted onto on the vibrating generator killed it too, it just wasn't built heavy duty enough for that kind of abuse.
Original vs cheapo:
I spotted this for $70 BIN OBO. I offered $50 and they countered $59. So I accepted. $65 with tax. It's the exact pressure spec (4-5.5psi) that the Onan BGE service manual calls for and it's exact style of Facet fuel pump it had. The next cheapest would have been $88 with tax. It has a 30 day return policy with the SELLER paying return shipping, so once I get it, I'll put it on and test it out ASAP to be sure it's working.
The old pump was rusted/seized, but I got it moving again. It's magnetically operated, moving up and down in the cylinder. The old rubber seal that basically does the pumping is impossible to get on it's own. Facet doesn't offer it at all. They want you to buy a new pump instead of repairing it, even though it's not hard to get to. The one in the old pump was hardened and partly missing, so it was a lost cause unless I could make one somehow. I emailed Facet almost a year ago about the seal but never got a reply. That shows how much they care about their products/customer service.
I am hoping to head out around eary October towards CA/AZ BLM LTVAs for the winter, so having my big gen working will be nice in case it gets hot a day or two to run the roof AC. Plus I can run my microwave since the oven is more or less broken. The gen did run (albiet always a bit crappy) with the cheap pump. But maybe the cheap pump just never worked very well. Maybe it was all the factors: pulling gas too far, maybe too low pressure, couldn't handle the vibrations. It did run the roof AC and microwave so I know the gen itself works. The fuel pump just totally crapped out after 10 hours or less.
EDIT: Oh, I just noticed the inlet/outlet are facing wrong, but I already deleted the hard line from the pump to carb using 1/4 fuel hose and brass fittings, so no big deal. The inlet uses a hose barb fitting I can transfer from the original pump. I just have to get a 1/4" hose barb fitting to fit the new pump. It seems they don't make the pump with the side connections (#40133E) anymore.
Original vs cheapo:
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I spotted this for $70 BIN OBO. I offered $50 and they countered $59. So I accepted. $65 with tax. It's the exact pressure spec (4-5.5psi) that the Onan BGE service manual calls for and it's exact style of Facet fuel pump it had. The next cheapest would have been $88 with tax. It has a 30 day return policy with the SELLER paying return shipping, so once I get it, I'll put it on and test it out ASAP to be sure it's working.
The old pump was rusted/seized, but I got it moving again. It's magnetically operated, moving up and down in the cylinder. The old rubber seal that basically does the pumping is impossible to get on it's own. Facet doesn't offer it at all. They want you to buy a new pump instead of repairing it, even though it's not hard to get to. The one in the old pump was hardened and partly missing, so it was a lost cause unless I could make one somehow. I emailed Facet almost a year ago about the seal but never got a reply. That shows how much they care about their products/customer service.
I am hoping to head out around eary October towards CA/AZ BLM LTVAs for the winter, so having my big gen working will be nice in case it gets hot a day or two to run the roof AC. Plus I can run my microwave since the oven is more or less broken. The gen did run (albiet always a bit crappy) with the cheap pump. But maybe the cheap pump just never worked very well. Maybe it was all the factors: pulling gas too far, maybe too low pressure, couldn't handle the vibrations. It did run the roof AC and microwave so I know the gen itself works. The fuel pump just totally crapped out after 10 hours or less.
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EDIT: Oh, I just noticed the inlet/outlet are facing wrong, but I already deleted the hard line from the pump to carb using 1/4 fuel hose and brass fittings, so no big deal. The inlet uses a hose barb fitting I can transfer from the original pump. I just have to get a 1/4" hose barb fitting to fit the new pump. It seems they don't make the pump with the side connections (#40133E) anymore.
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IDIBRONCO
IDIBRONCO
I'll bet that you won't run into any flow issues with that Facet either. Unlike on our trucks.
