6.9 IDI endless hard starts

[WrenchWhore]

Seeing as it's an 83 i'd guess it has a ton of miles. Has a compression test ever been done to see if it's simply a well worn engine? The glow plugs would be my next visual inspection. Do they say BERU on the actual glowplug? How does the the engine run when it's all warmed up to operating temp?

 

[IDIBRONCO]

How much advance? I'm gonna be conservative but don't want to do damage by advancing too much

Try a dime's width. The thing about timing is that it can be set back if you feel like it's too far advanced. You won't damage anything by running it for a short time even if the timing's too far advanced.

 

[MadMac]

I've got a 1983 F350 6.9 IDI that I've been working on for over a year.

@seanres - This sounds very much like my journey - which you can find under my id in the archives.

Things I didn't see mentioned.

1) Starter speed. I dont remember seeing a way to check this. But having fell victum to over optimistic parts indexes, I found myself with a part which fit - and was meant for a gasser. It would spin the flywheel, but would not start the truck.

2) The fuel/water seperator. This is the one which ended up being my primary problem - everyone evetually replaces them with a Marine unit. Mine is the Racor R45, others use the R90 and relocate - there are a number of good options

3) Lift Pump. Not my primary problem, but certain the source of a number of issues. It is hard to get to. Pull it and have a really good look... or like I did - just replace it.

Last - make certain you have good GPs. There are a plethora of posts here about them. I recieved counterfits from both an eBay seller and one of the best known online auto parts resellers (who refused to take them back). One resulted in a broken tip down in the cylendar - which had to be removed the hard way.

You've nearly replaced everything meaningful. Wishing you the very best getting to the last fix... FWIW - after the separator was replaced, my '85 became the most reliable starter in my family's group of cars.

 

[seanres]

Another good place to get glow plugs is https://www.ididiesel.com/

Kind of surprised no one has mentioned it yet, have you checked for air in fuel after sitting for long periods, have you checked compression? Sounds more like a losing prime issue. Are you still using the stock fuel filter? the 6.9 one has been known for being cruddy

I had my diesel tech buddy take a look at it running and his opinion was it seems good.. it runs fine but with a bit of white smoke but I attributed it to injection pump timing. I got the compression tester and returned it per his suggestion.

I am using a new stock 6.9 filter from NAPA so not sure if there is still an issue with those

Seeing as it's an 83 i'd guess it has a ton of miles. Has a compression test ever been done to see if it's simply a well worn engine? The glow plugs would be my next visual inspection. Do they say BERU on the actual glowplug? How does the the engine run when it's all warmed up to operating temp?

Supposedly 32k but I would guess 132k, I've heard you can tell from pedal wear and the pedal looks mint but I couldn't guess beyond that. I have not checked them but tomorrow I'll be pulling them and checking the resistance on all of them I haven't had time yet unfortunately. When she's warm she'll run fine but a tad under power which again my guess was timing. Before the new IP it'd stall at idle if I cranked the wheel without giving it some throttle

@seanres - This sounds very much like my journey - which you can find under my id in the archives.

Things I didn't see mentioned.

1) Starter speed. I dont remember seeing a way to check this. But having fell victum to over optimistic parts indexes, I found myself with a part which fit - and was meant for a gasser. It would spin the flywheel, but would not start the truck.

2) The fuel/water seperator. This is the one which ended up being my primary problem - everyone evetually replaces them with a Marine unit. Mine is the Racor R45, others use the R90 and relocate - there are a number of good options

3) Lift Pump. Not my primary problem, but certain the source of a number of issues. It is hard to get to. Pull it and have a really good look... or like I did - just replace it.

Last - make certain you have good GPs. There are a plethora of posts here about them. I recieved counterfits from both an eBay seller and one of the best known online auto parts resellers (who refused to take them back). One resulted in a broken tip down in the cylendar - which had to be removed the hard way.

You've nearly replaced everything meaningful. Wishing you the very best getting to the last fix... FWIW - after the separator was replaced, my '85 became the most reliable starter in my family's group of cars.

I'll take a look at your profile, I got the 6.9 for the reliability but still struggling to get it there! I think the starter is good given that I have had good starts with glow plugs but I can send a startup video when I get to working on it tomorrow.

I have not looked at the fuel/water seperator at all! I'll give it a look over and see if that might be the culprit.

I've replaced the lift pump with an electric fuel pump which has been working great so should be all good on that end. Inserted clear line between it and the fuel filter housing and zero air on crank or running

 

[seanres]

I did try some methods to check the GP without pulling them yet really quickly with a multimeter and the voltage from the tab to the positive was ~0.15V for one and ~0.07V for the others w the battery at 12.8V. I'll be pulling them all and sending the order for new motorcraft ones if I find any that are out. I also have been manually having them on for 10s when I cycle them before starting. Could that be a reason for them failing prematurely? This is at all temps but never longer than that

My fuel/water separator has already been deleted by one of the previous owners but I just checked the connections and both hose clamps were loose! Tightening them up and then will be giving a start ago tomorrow

 

[Jesus Freak]

Maybe one of the guys can link you to the discussion we had about fake Motorcraft GPs, but just because it says Motorcraft on the packaging doesn't mean they're Motorcraft.

 

[Nero]

Since Jesus Freak is a bum

Cheap ZD-9 Motorcraft plugs on Flea-Bay? Legit or sketchy?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166928038696?_skw=Ford+F4TZ-2A4151A&epid=75164158&itmmeta=01J7NSSEY55J3ZSNRK8ZEW0YDM&hash=item26ddafbb28:g:e9sAAOSwllZmxFRE&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKnvOOfxnu0VD2M1ya6vnecihgcwY9cl9kC4DDvvK24ABrTDkDyjSQp8lcc44J3OgJk0aNekFqyzdijWLmru59sIGgC2xqo6RJ3%2FYsL...

www.oilburners.net

 

[Jesus Freak]

Since Jesus Freak is a bum

Cheap ZD-9 Motorcraft plugs on Flea-Bay? Legit or sketchy?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166928038696?_skw=Ford+F4TZ-2A4151A&epid=75164158&itmmeta=01J7NSSEY55J3ZSNRK8ZEW0YDM&hash=item26ddafbb28:g:e9sAAOSwllZmxFRE&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKnvOOfxnu0VD2M1ya6vnecihgcwY9cl9kC4DDvvK24ABrTDkDyjSQp8lcc44J3OgJk0aNekFqyzdijWLmru59sIGgC2xqo6RJ3%2FYsL...

www.oilburners.net

I'm technically challenged! I have no idea how to do that stuff.....I literally drive a mechanically injected diesel with a 5spd transmission on used motor oil.... that's how primitive I am.

 

[seanres]

Thanks for the info... turns out you guys were right.

All of the glow plugs failed! I did the ohm check and removed the full driver side bank and all of them had over 100 kohm!!!! I kept the old ones and found 2 that were correctly around 1ohm, I hear they should be 0.8-0.3ohm but checking with my multimeter with nothing in between was reading about 0.8ohm so I'm guessing they'd be alright if I were to put them in. I didn't bother checking the rest after finding 4 failed so I'm ordering new Motorcraft ZD28 (interchange ZD1A) from rock auto which will be in shortly. I'm guessing they were never good to begin with given how little I've used them. I did remove the anti seize so I think they truly are all junk

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old plug which checked out to be OK

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old (top) vs new (bottom) which all were not even close to 1ohm! New plugs did say BERU on them

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I'm glad to see that you're on the way to solving this problem.

 

[Nero]

You're gonna be kicking yourself in the pants that it was something so easy. But with that said, I'm glad its that easy!

 

[Black dawg]

Those plugs look like a 6.2 6.5 spec plug.....and also not long enough for the taper to seal in the head

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Those plugs look like a 6.2 6.5 spec plug.....and also not long enough for the taper to seal in the head

You're right. The top ones looks like it. Good eye!

 

[seanres]

Those plugs look like a 6.2 6.5 spec plug.....and also not long enough for the taper to seal in the head

Well I was sure tricked because those did come out of a motorcraft ZD1A bag, can't trust even the reputable ebay sellers I guess

 

[IDIBRONCO]

That's true. I bought some a couple of years back. They turned out to be fakes so I just threw them in the trash without opening the bags. Better to lose a little money than end up having to tear apart my engine because of bad glow plugs.