6.9 engine harness meltdown 85 E350 really bad situation

[899ccs]

Hi folks, could really use some expert help. I will give you all the info I can. I am a former Master tech but limited in diesel hands on repairs. This van has the 6.9 idi non turbo. The harness coming from the passenger side near firewall burned up the fuse links pretty good. This is what happened. I had the block heater plugged in over night. The glow plugs have never worked since the van was given to me three years ago. I am assuming this because the light has never lit up. I have not tested the circuit. Summer time it would need just a light spritz of starter fluid to start then once warmed up it would start rest of the day no problem even if it sat for several hours. Winter time it needs to be plugged in to for while then starts no ether. Not plugged in it would need ether. Really really cold need both. This morning it was plugged in started up fine temp outside low 40's. Did not warm it up, drove it about 1 mile and parked for 6 hours with no ability to plug in. Came out to start it and cranked for a few seconds no start. Opened hood shot ether than cranked engine it started. Backed out and saw smoke pouring out from hood and re parked then shut down. Opened hood to smoldering harness, burned up fuse links and the wiring to sensors at front of engine melted right to the connector terminals. It is sitting in bad spot and I need to get it running to get it home which is about a mile. Towing it is a big expense with tow truck, pulling it home doesn't help me because of my driveway is at a steep grade. Further complicating things is the freezing outside temps.
So now it is burnt wiring and crank but no start. What do I need to repair in the wiring to get it going?
Is that the temp switch on the front of the manifold for the gauge? It's wires are burnt off as well as another sensor near it. Cold start? I need a good clear idea or diagram of this engines sensors and circuits so I can effectively repair it to get it out of where it sits. From what I understand the fuse links that fried go to the fuel cutoff/ glow plug circuit controller and the instrument panel gauges for temp and oil pressure are in the same harness and burned up consequently\. The cause of the melt down could be just old age and high resistance. I need to build a new harness but what can be done to get it running to get it out of there? Should I just replace the fuse links forgo the sensor wires and plug it in for a few hours? Is there any sensors on the front of the engine there that it needs to run the engine? Repairing this outside in freezing temps with exposed hands gonna be a challenge,. Thanks for any direction you can give me.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. These are completely mechanical engines that don't need any sensors to run. Here's something that you can try as long as you're certain that there's no power to anything that can burn up. I'm guessing that you no longer have power to your injector pump so it will no longer send fuel to the injectors. You can run a temporary wire from a positive on a battery or the hot side of the starter solenoid to the rear plug on the driver's side of the injector pump. This will energize the pump and let your engine run. You will have to unhook the wire in order to shut the engine off. I would recommend an inline fuse in your jumper wire as a precaution, especially since you have no idea of the condition of your wiring. This should get your van home. I'd guess that either something in the (non working glow plug system shorted out or else a wire rubbed on something long enough to wear through the insulation. FYI there's no sending units of any kind on the intake manifold. The one in the block in front of the driver's side head runs the temp gauge. The other one that's close by, in the head is the overheat light. The one that's under the thermostat housing is for the high idle (fast idle).

 

[Cubey]

I have an 85 E350 if you need me to take a few pictures. One wire of mine is all mangled already, looks like the insulation burned off of it. Just bare copper wire is left. It appears to be the lower gauge wire from the starter relay to the starter, because there is an added wire zip tied to the positive wire, coming off the starter relay and going down towards the starter.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I knew that you'd be a good one to help out here. I know that you have a lot of experience with a van. At you sure do compared to me.

 

[899ccs]

i d i Bronco...man thank you . I will put together a fused jumper tonight and go up and get the van in the morning..
It is totally blocking my buddies very limited parking spaces at his shop. What an awesome forum. I will let you guys know how it went
thank you again

 

[899ccs]

Cubey, you actually have one of these? You ARE MY NEW BEST FRIEND! No one has one of these and further more no one at any shop will even touch it...it's like it's a Volvo or something. Okay I am going to post some pics of my engine compartment and maybe we can compare. Other than this little problem ha ha, been a very good vehicle. Pulls my boat, has extended cargo, hauls tons of crap,
used it to move several times... one other thing though is the head lights.....dim and I mean dim... even on bright there dim. They're halogens too. Are your head lights dim? I checked the voltage to them and it seemed like it was battery voltage, **** I probably have to put in some (super silver star ultra bright sunbeam blind the blind cook an egg on these mothers) head lamps at $50.00 a piece/ ?

 

[79GLIDE]

I had a similar issue with my '88. The coolant sensor there is for the cold start solenoid on the injector pump(rear most of the 2 terminals on the pump) and for the fast idle solenoid(mounted to left side of pump body). All of those wires are supplied from the same power source in the loom. I was able to unplug all of the terminal connectors except the main fuel shutoff to the pump, then rewire a jumper where the link melted through. Been driving it this way for some time. Regarding the headlights, a bad ground is commonly the source of this problem.

 

[Cubey]

Cubey, you actually have one of these? You ARE MY NEW BEST FRIEND! No one has one of these and further more no one at any shop will even touch it...it's like it's a Volvo or something. Okay I am going to post some pics of my engine compartment and maybe we can compare. Other than this little problem ha ha, been a very good vehicle. Pulls my boat, has extended cargo, hauls tons of crap,
used it to move several times... one other thing though is the head lights.....dim and I mean dim... even on bright there dim. They're halogens too. Are your head lights dim? I checked the voltage to them and it seemed like it was battery voltage, **** I probably have to put in some (super silver star ultra bright sunbeam blind the blind cook an egg on these mothers) head lamps at $50.00 a piece/ ?

I live in one full time (in Class C RV form).

My headlights are dim because they are beyond bad. I'm just too cheap to buy new ones because I pretty much never drive at night.

Do your sealed beams have moisture inside? Both mine do, and my passenger side one's relector is notiably darker from being exposed to moisture for so long. Sealed beams are generally never too good to begin with.

Walmart sells the basic Sylviania H6054 for about $9/each which is probably what I'll end up buying... someday.

I put non-sealed beam Xtravisions in a 91 Corolla years ago and I liked them a lot. They put out a lot of (yellowish) light without washing out everything with white light. They $17/each in H6064. SilverStars are $25/each. Xtravision will last worst than basic but better than SilverStar. So it depends how much total you want to spend: $18 for basics, $34 for Xtras, or $50 for Silvers.

Upgrading your headlight harness might be a good idea too. Here is a cheap one I found real quick that looks like it's a direct plug in upgrade harness, besides you needing to supply the positive from battery and ground.
https://www.amazon.com/LIMICAR-Headlamp-Headlight-1995-1997-1988-1995/dp/B07FRCFNZV

But if you are ok with wiring, it wouldn't be hard to make your own harness if you buy your own "h4" male and female connectors, fuse holder, relays, etc. It might be the better option, since you can have separate relays for both sides, in case the fuse blows, so you don't lose all your headlights at once. Plus having 2 batteries like we do, each could be run from each battery on it's respective side. However, you could just order 2 of the kits and get the same result I suppose.

Thankfully, I haven't needed to have a shop do anything on the engines of my two IDIs, just chassis type stuff (brakes, differential, driveshaft carrier bearing, starter). The starter was the closest thing on my F250 to "engine" work any shop has done. I've done glow plugs (F250), return lines/orings (F250 and E350), alternator (F250), vacuum both (F250 & E350), whole front of of the F250, and lots more.

 

[Cubey]

I had a similar issue with my '88. The coolant sensor there is for the cold start solenoid on the injector pump(rear most of the 2 terminals on the pump) and for the fast idle solenoid(mounted to left side of pump body). All of those wires are supplied from the same power source in the loom. I was able to unplug all of the terminal connectors except the main fuel shutoff to the pump, then rewire a jumper where the link melted through. Been driving it this way for some time. Regarding the headlights, a bad ground is commonly the source of this problem.

I broke the cold idle advance sensor on my F250 and never bothered fixing it since it's not THAT vital I find. It starts and runs ok without it. If you are worried about it, just give it tiny bit of throttle while in P or N before you drive it to help warm it up. My RV's is fully operational still currently.

 

[Cubey]

Some IDI van ****. Mine has an ATS 085 kit so it looks a bit different from the doghouse side.

Yep, the fuel return line hose is missing in that pic I took mid-replacement. And I haven't taken a better pic since.

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[yARIC008]

The older body style gives you alot more room in the cab than me it looks like.

To original poster, yeah, just power to fuel shut off solenoid and you’re good to go. Also, ether is really bad for diesels man. That’s how you crack a piston... 22 to 1 compression and them a big BOOM before TDC.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Some IDI van ****.

Man, that new alternator belt really jumps out at you and looks pretty good.

 

[Cubey]

Man, that new alternator belt really jumps out at you and looks pretty good.

Bad wording!!!! I hope it DOESN'T jump out.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Visually.

 

[899ccs]

I know that the ether is bad and I hate to use it. Only if I have to and if the WD40 wont light it off. Okay so let me update what the heck happened. Apparently the wire to the fuel shut off shorted to ground. This cooked all the way through the harness/glow plug harness, fried through the multi pin connector and continued on to the fuse link for the circuit. Consequently it burnt off all the wire pigtails to the pump. Cold advance and the low idle solenoid wiring from the temp switch are toast. Wiring from the temp switch to the harness connector survived but it burnt off the double female connector at the switch. I know have a good idea of how it all works and was able to jump the fuel shut off just like you all said and it fired up and I got it home. That was great ...thank you.
To repair it correctly I would want a new glow plug harness complete with temp switch to injector pump, new quality glow plugs and a new solid state controller but that is not in the budget. So I will fab up my own harness and make repairs to existing harness as necessary. Test out my glow plugs replace as necessary and put in a momentary switch to energize them. Wont use ether any more either. stupid to ruin a motor that way .. Cubey .. that turbo kit makes your van the official worst case scenario of all vans for engine maintenance and repairs via the dog house. Holy crap doesn't it get hot in there in the summer? I guess I am lucky it wasn't worse. I put up some pics tomorrow