6.9, 7.3 IDI ATS 088, 093, 7.3 DI..... Which way to go??

[NW_Iron]

Hi there, after looking at several different forums this seems to be the best IDI community. Been shopping, searching and doing a lot of research on Ford diesels after deciding to move on from my 2wd Dodge 400 BB. Started by looking at 460 Fords but have since moved onto diesels only.

My price range is in $5,000 neighborhood, I'm not expecting a prefect example but should be able to find a solid truck private party. Searching in the PNW has lead me to a few options from an n/a 6.9 up to a turbo 7.3l DI or PSD. I'll be using her for light duty construction runs, landscape duties, parts hauler, and occasional car hauler (missing out on too many opportunities on the other side of the passes). Don't need a daily driver but I don't want the 8mpg of my Dodge.

I'm mainly focused on the IDI's for their mechanical simplicity and track record of durability, along the same lines as a Cummins 12v, at least from my perspective.

So with that in mind is there much real difference between say a 7.3l with a 088 vs 093? I know the 093 is waste gated but with my once or twice a year haul over a pass it may nit matter much.
Would a first year 7.3l DI still be electronic? In which case I think I'll pass.
DIY turbo on a 6.9l with manual 4spd? This is my cheapest buy in at 20% the cost of other options, I could probably turbo it, cam and do head studs and gasket for less then the other options I'm looking at.

FYI these are all from examples I've either already driven or will this weekend/week.
Thanks

 

[BrianX128]

I'm not an "expert" but from my time on here and owning my idi I'll give you this advice, if you are planning on pulling the trigger on one either way give the stickies a glance and go for the one that you can tell if the injector pump is in good shape, glow plugs work, flywheel and clutch are good, sac's have been maintained or the previous owner has heard of them at least.

Best value of the trucks seem to be more in the condition then the type to an extent. A rarer and more desired combination might be a money pit versus a simple good truck you know.

 

[IDIoit]

all powerstrokes are electronic.
the early version is a bit different, but the blocks are the same, from my reseArch from 94.5-03
but still electronic.

if i were you, i would find that grandpas truck that he dont need any more.
spend the cash on a good clean truck thats well taken care of, N/A or turbo.
both will fit your needs.

now what you need to answer, to yourself mainly, is if you want a single cab, super cab, or crew cab, 2 wd, or 4 wd, and single rear wheel, or dual...

 

[riotwarrior]

Non waste gate w auto waste fated w std trans.

just how I see it myself.

 

[Clb]

My non gated banks on a 7.3 was a better heavy hauler, than the 093 gated on the 7.3
The gated comes on lower faster is the main diff.
No idi will compare to a 12valve even the stroke is challenged.
The stroke to my knowledge is electric from 94 1-2 up.

 

[NW_Iron]

Thanks for the input. I have been thinking along the lines of what you guys are saying. I have a few that look pretty clean I want to take a closer look at, some of these sellers are a PITA though I won't lie... **** is ******* me off

One sounds great on paper, records going back 10+yr but dodgy owner avoiding questions raises red flags for me. Another one is an 85' that has an 87' 7.3l w/ 088 ATS and a newish tranny. But then again it has oil all over the front axle and the seller has already told me he had to replace the bushings on one side, it's in my town so I'll see it Monday.

For some reason I was thinking the early DI's were not all electronic. I'm not into that.

I have read a few FAQ's and the IDI buyers guide, I'll have another read though, wanna get that info drilled into my head.

How could I do an inspection of the injection pump? I'm not one to shy away from bringing my tools on a test drive. On the 6.9l I found 3 dead gp but was able to verify the GPR and GPC were good. That truck is a beeeeater but it's so cheap and the motor is actually really strong once it's up to temp.

 

[NW_Iron]

My non gated banks on a 7.3 was a better heavy hauler, than the 093 gated on the 7.3
The gated comes on lower faster is the main diff.
No idi will compare to a 12valve even the stroke is challenged.
The stroke to my knowledge is electric from 94 1-2 up.

That's what I've been reading about waste gate vs non. Seems like since these can't make huge boost the waste gate plays a much larger roll in the behavior or the motor. I know the Cummins can make gobs of power but I won't need all that plus I think the Fords drive better. With that said I have my out for those too, prices are just crazy though. Beat to hell and back 2wd trucks with 300k+ and sellers want $5k and there's a lot less of them for sale. For me I'll get more truck for my dollar going with a Ford and an IDI.

 

[david85]

if i were you, i would find that grandpas truck that he dont need any more.
spend the cash on a good clean truck thats well taken care of, N/A or turbo.
both will fit your needs.

^^THIS!!!

Believe it or not, there are still some real cherries left out there. Wait patiently for the right one that is as close to stock as possible and build it up, or leave it stock as you see fit. Don't touch anything that's heavily modded by some kid (lift kits and subs, etc are not a good indicator). Most often these will be a 2wd extended cab that was used for camping. Finding a 4x4 that isn't thrashed and rusty (driven on salt roads) will be a high order but they can be found. Its rare, but it can happen.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is transmission options. Early ones are generally bullet proof but ******* fuel and limit top speed with low gears. Later ones can be more problematic but give better overall driving performance, particularly on the freeway.

Transmission options for 6.9 IDI:

C6 3 speed auto - bullet proof and cheap to overhaul if they break. ******* fuel and forget about keeping up on the freeways 4.10 gears will limit your top speed to ~75MPH
T19 4 speed stick - Also bullet proof but can sometimes crack bell housings. Better on fuel due to no slip but still no overdrive
ZF5 5 speed stick - Fairly tough in the 4 lower gears but can break if towed in overdrive under heavy load. Dual Mass flywheels are known to fail and are expensive to replace. But at least it has overdrive*
*1987 model year only for 6.9 IDI

7.3 IDI and DI transmissions:

E4OD 4 speed auto - Based on the C6 with overdrive added at the front. Also has locking torque converter and higher overdrive ratio than the ZF5. Early versions known to fail. 1995 and up generally much better (older versions that were rebuilt may be updated to 95+ spec).
ZF5 - Replaced T19 after 1987 and early 1988. Some rare fleet vehicles may still have T19 transmissions all the way up to the the early 90s (same for C6)

Oh, and welcome to the forum

 

[NW_Iron]

I'm trying to find gramps! Have you guys seen him stashing his rig? You know, the 7.3l ECLB 4x4 5spd with my name on it?

Thanks for the transmission breakdown. Although I am just learning about the IDI I know to stay from hack jobs or my favorite "It just needs a new exhaust manifold gasket" riiiiight.

 

[david85]

I'm trying to find gramps! Have you guys seen him stashing his rig? You know, the 7.3l ECLB 4x4 5spd with my name on it?

ok maybe we're driving it in a little too hard but you get the idea.

Having said that, it will be a tall order to find one that is in good shape with that powertrain setup. These trucks are utterly hopeless in the snow if they are 2wd so those are the ones that generally get spared the road salt. Probably better off looking for a 7.3 era truck. And if you're not hung up on an IDI, there isn't much wrong with the 1st gen powerstroke. They're noisier, have their quirks and parts are more expensive, but it is an engine that you can still work on yourself.

 

[dunk]

Best money you can spend IMO is finding a truck with little or no rust. If you have the time and money, fly south and get a desert truck. If you're a body man that may be a different matter. Don't rule out the 460. They are cheap easy power and can be made to be reasonable on fuel (teens on the highway), costs peanuts to build a 600 HP/TQ 460 compared to several times the money to get half that from an IDI and there's not a lot more to be had. I like the IDI, but honestly it's expensive and has it's quirks. At the end of the day it'll never be as fast or have as much torque as a 460 build.

 

[Matt_INW]

If there's one in Eastern Washington (not more than an hour or so from Spokane) I might be able to take a look for you if you're on the fence to drive so far. I might (not positive) be available, and would need to know exactly what you'd want looked at. I consider myself a fair judge of used vehicles, but then I had some unexpected repairs when I bought my 91 F350 IDI for $4,500, because it sat too much the 2 years prior to me buying it. But nothing major, normal wear and tear for the age. Was well cared for by the original owner (82 or so when I bought it).

Mine grew up in Montana and has been in Eastern WA the last few years, not much rust to speak of on it. Couple spots on the roof oddly, nothing else of note.

Anywho, Gluck!

Edit P.S. Mine is 2WD, limited slip diff, and it has been fine in the snow. Previous owner driving it around a Montana farm for years only got stuck once, getting it nose down a hill or some such with not enough weight in the rear. But yes a 4x4 would certainly be better.

 

[icanfixall]

Welcome to the forum. So you mostly have been consoled on the good and the bad with different power & trns options. Now you might want to know if bottom end work is required. YOU MUST PULL THE ENGINE... Look at the deep oil pan. The oil pump suction shower head is nearly touching the bottom of the pan. There is no possible way to remove the pan without reaching inside to remove the oil pump. Sad part is our wrists will not bend correctly to bolt the m back up to the block. Its an impossible job.
Now pulling heads while the engine is in frame can be very ******* the back. It has been done but 3 guys were doing it. Once sitting in the engine bay and 2 guys holding the head up supported be a chain and a long 2 inch pipe. The back pushrods and head bolts can't be removed fro the heads either. You hold them up with rubber bands when you remove or install the heads. then those farthest back head bolts are very hard to reach because of the firewall interference.. Best pull the engine for head work.
Some engines have very bad valve guides and you might hear a woofing sound from the intake or exhaust. Figure around 300 bucks for the machine work for guides. Another 65 bucks for the intake valley pan gasket and another 300 for the ARP studs.
The 6.9 has 7/16 head bolts and they are not very strong. Most will upgrade to ARP 7/16 studs and never have a head gasket issue. The 7.3 went to the 1/3 head bolts. I did some testing of new bolts and found they break at 154,000 psi. ARP 7.3 studs break at 200,000 psi. Its a much better holding fastener than the stock bolts. Nearly every part of the idi engine can be swapped between the 6.9 and the 7.3. The rods, crank, valves, cam and any valve train part are the same part number. This makes finding parts so easy. About 6 years ago I found out the 6.9 head gasket was the same size dimensionally as the 7.3. Only difference was the lower corners on the 6.9 had coolant passages open where the 7.3 does not. So I suggested to a member to use the 6.9 gaskets on his 7.3 but open up the coolant plugs in these passages. He did and its running cooler and running fine. I suppose you could run the 7.3 head gasket on the 6.9 but that will be closing off some coolant passages.. Not a good idea.
You mentioned wanting to test an injection pump.. Really not possible. But if the engine sits after being run warmed up and it wont restart. Pouring some water on the power head of the injection pump shrinks the metal and it will build enough fuel pressure to pop open the injectors. This condition is called heat soak. Sitting warmed up the injection pump tolerances open up till they can't make the injector pop pressure which is usually 1850 lbs.
I feel the best bang for the buck is any idi engine. The ZF 5 speed trans and a single mass clutch. Add in a set of 3:73(they were not a stock ratio) and you have the best of everything. I run a BTS E4OD auto trans with a Gear Vendors behind that. The 3:55 gears are tall but my built engine pulls them very well. I will be changing to a set of 3:73 gears soon hopefully.
You have complimented this forum by coming here too for good solid information. It is by far the best honest idi site on the internet.

 

[NW_Iron]

Damn, right on. This is a good site, lots of helpful feed back fast.

lol, no worries. Maybe just found gramps rig, looks like it's stashed down near Portland. Waiting for a response to my inquiry, 94 7.3 IDIT 5spd 4wd topper and looks really clean inside and out, no dents or rust anywhere, almost too good. Crossing my fingers he has service records.

If a sweet deal on a 460 comes along I'd take a look but idk I've had my eyes out for a diesel rig for years now. Plus if nobody buys my old Dodge with a 400 then I might just gut my spare 440 and do a 470 stroker since that's another thing I've always wanted to do, lol.

There is a 85' Fummins 5spd in Spokane Valley I might look at if it doesn't sell. The cab is rusted up pretty bad along the whole length of the rockers on both sides though. Seller thinks the truck is a screaming deal at $6500 but can't verify the mileage or history of the Cummins.

Whoa. 3 guys to pull a head!? Note to self; Find a good well maintained truck!

 

[icanfixall]

The 3 guys to pull a head is for safety of the head gaskets. Trying to single handedly guide a head that weighs nearly 100 lbs back on the block without ruining a gasket is next to impossible. Just think. All that work and you find out you have a leaker. Now your doing the same job twice. So deciding if you "got lucky" and did not nick the other head gasket so you don't pull both heads... another big mistake. A member named... The Warden has a very good write up with great pics how he did this ruff job with 2 other helpers and the long 2 inch pipe. He was in the engine bay guiding as they walked in the head. It worked very well. I suppose getting the heads off with a cherry picker is ok. But getting them back on without damaging the head gaskets might be a job too ruff to do. We all take chances but some are not worth taking.